• Beans

  • Espresso dosing — blend vs. single origin

I’m about to start on a new bag of beans from my local coffee shop/roaster that is new to me. Normally, I use their dark roast blend which is sourced from a variety of countries. The new bag is a medium roast single origin from Indonesia.

For the dark roast, I’ve been using 19.0 g, which is exactly what my local coffee shop recommends on their website for espresso for their espresso roasts. Their website also says that for single origin beans, they recommend 16.0 g. They sell other single origin beans with different roast levels and from different parts of the world, and they have other espresso roasts with different roast levels and from different parts of the world, so I don’t think the dosing recommendation is based on those factors.

I have no reason to not believe them, as it is their product, and I will certainly play around with the dosing to figure out what works best for us with this batch of beans. But I was wondering if there was a reason why the recommended dosing should differ by 3.0 g just based on blend vs. single origin.

    wilburpan they are not wrong. But you are missing a key piece of information: the basket size.

    If you buy VST, they are labelled 15, 18, 20 and 22 grams. And in them, you are meant to dose 15, 18, 20, 22 grams, +/- 1g. Lighter roasts are denser than darker roasts.

      New to blending so feel free to ignore me but I would thought that sort of recommendation would depend on the specific beans that made up the blend, as opposed to the reason being simply that it was a blend versus SO.

      That said, I would ask them why. I would love to know their answer pretty please!

      wilburpan But I was wondering if there was a reason why the recommended dosing should differ by 3.0 g just based on blend vs. single origin.

      The cynic in me wants to say that maybe the blends are slightly cheaper so they need you to up the dose to make up for the lost profits?

      I know not everyone will agree to this, but my understanding is that (within reason) the dose is function of how much coffee you want to make (in combination with the yield ratio). So if you are using a 1:2 ratio and want 32g shots you need to use 16g of coffee. If you want 38g shots - use 19g of coffee.

      I know the trend in recent years has been to use ever bigger baskets and doses, but why? Does everyone just want bigger drinks? Some claim a bigger dose is easier to pull (or less prone to channelling) but is it really? Is it not true that actually huge doses are harder to extract properly?
      And if one gets channelling with a 14-15g dose, doesn’t it make more sense to improve grind and puck preparation rather than trying to hide the problems with a thicker bed of coffee?

      I might be totally off here - correct me if I am wrong - but I don’t see any reason why blends would need a different dose from single-origin coffee. I would decide the dose that I want based on the drink that I want to make, dial it in as usual and ignore the dose recommendation from the roaster.

          I think “blend” vs “single origin” here is a distraction. IMO, it’s more about the coffee origin and the roast level.

          A tea-like juice banger might be pretty “weak” with a 15g dose, not cutting through milk and all that jargon nonsense. Hence, IMO, one of the reasons why these days we only drink doubles and have increased the dose to 18g rather than usual 14g.

          Switch to a darker roast, on the more “traditional side” and a smaller dose might suffice. It’s “strong enough”.

          Whatever it is, I doubt the coffee shop/roaster would use the same basket and dose 3g less. Either the basket will be overdosed or underdosed with one of the coffees.

          The dose is the dose, the ratio is what’s important, unless you are seriously underdosing, or overdosing the basket. Seems like the roaster has got some odd ideas somehow. In fact varying the dose by coffee would put you all over the place, if that’s all you worried about.

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          Doram And if one gets channelling with a 14-15g dose, doesn’t it make more sense to improve grind and puck preparation rather than trying to hide the problems with a thicker bed of coffee?

          This is basket, beans and roasts dependent. It is nothing to do with the puck prep or hiding the problem as far as up dosing is concerned.

          The IMS 26, it is supposed to be 14-18g. Dosing anything less than 16g, just won’t work, at least for me. I get channel or the pour is faster. The basket is barely half full. It needs at least 16g, while 18g is the max.

          Similarly, on the triple basket — IMS 32, dosing even 22g fills the basket only a half. I don’t get channels but get craters. I fill 24g and still the basket is only 60% full!

          If I want to dose 14g, I get 12-14g basket and won’t use the 18g basket. Otherwise, I will use the single basket and can get away dosing 11-12g!

          Doram Is it not true that actually huge doses are harder to extract properly?

          I have seen this when I load my triple. Grinding coarser and/or put up the temp by a C at least works for me.

          I think the roaster might be assuming you dose 16g if using the 18g basket. He may be using a triple to dose 19g.

          The blend is typically an espresso roast ? I would expect it to be a bit fluffier than the SO. So, I would dose a gram less (like decaf) on the 18g. basket

          I really do not think there is any commercial motive in their recommendations.

                LMSC This is basket, beans and roasts dependent.

                Of course it is, and my comment assumed the correct size basket is used.

                LMSC I think the roaster might be assuming you dose 16g if using the 18g basket.

                The roaster said nothing about the size of the basket, and I would think they also assume that the correct size basket is used for a given dose.

                Channeling is going to create an uneven extraction, and this is something that needs to be corrected, no matter what dose is used.

                As said above, by others as well, the main thing a dose does (within reason) is dictate the size of the drink (or the strength, if it’s going to be diluted). Therefore stating that there is a correct dose for a certain coffee sounds odd.

                • LMSC replied to this.

                      Doram Channeling is going to create an uneven extraction, and this is something that needs to be corrected, no matter what dose is used.

                      True!

                      But, IMO, an incorrect or a lower dose (eg: 14g), for an example, on an 18g basket is unlikely to get corrected however good the grind size or the puck prep may be. One may need to up dose to correct the malfunction or go a basket size lower. Otherwise, one might have to lower the brew temp, which may pose a fresh set of problems.

                          LMSC But, IMO, an incorrect or a lower dose (eg: 14g), for an example, on an 18g basket is unlikely to get corrected however good the grind size or the puck prep may be.

                          Who said anything about dosing 14g in an 18g basket? We are talking about any dose in the appropriatly sized basket, are we not?

                          • LMSC replied to this.

                              Doram If we are using the right dose in a suitable basket, we know it’s a malfunction, which needs correcting; otherwise, the dosage needs correction.

                                  LMSC Doram If we are using the right dose in a suitable basket, we know it’s a malfunction, which needs correcting; otherwise, the dosage needs correction.

                                  The thread is about a roaster recomending different doses for blends and single origins… :)

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                                    I’m done for the long week end! 😊

                                    But with the advent of the Weber pf that looks like it’s channeling.

                                    Do we actually know if the coffee is or isn’t channeling?

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                                      Doram The cynic in me wants to say that maybe the blends are slightly cheaper so they need you to up the dose to make up for the lost profits?

                                      The folks at my local place all seem pretty nice, so I don’t think this is the plan. Besides, the single origin coffee beans they sell are priced higher than the blends. So what they should do to maximize profit is to recommend using a higher dose of the single origin, because then I would plow through that bag of beans faster, and then I would buy more. 😉

                                        I’ve learned a ton about dosing and different size baskets, which I didn’t know was a thing before this thread, so thanks for that.

                                        But to bring the discussion in a little bit, we’re talking about a general starting point recommended by the roaster for their beans when making espresso. I’m sure that they know that there are other factors that impact the ideal dose, as they are in the business, and what I didn’t mention is that they also provide tips on adjusting the grind, dose, and temperature to dial in the shot.

                                        I use a 9Barista, so I only have the one basket that came with it. The 9Barista folks have a similar general recommendation to start with 18.5 g of coffee, but they recognize that you’ll be adjusting the dose depending on the type of coffee you’re grinding.

                                        I know just enough to know that the ideal dose of coffee for espresso depends on the bean. So I’m not surprised that there’s a recommendation for different starting points for different beans. My experience so far is that the roast level has been the biggest factor on the dose that I wind up using, and that seems to align with other people’s experience. So that’s why I was surprised at the recommendation for different starting doses based on single origin vs. blends, which is why I asked the question.

                                        By the way, yesterday I started using the single origin beans, and was working on dialing things in. I started at 16 g, and am now at 19 g. Still tweaking.

                                        Don’t forget the original Italian double was 14g was it not

                                        We seem to really high dose now.

                                        I still do 16-17g like I have since I started but I’ve always had a basket that suits from ims.

                                        Plus you get more drinks from a bag haha

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                                        Cuprajake But with the advent of the Weber pf that looks like it’s channeling.

                                        Do we actually know if the coffee is or isn’t channeling?

                                        If it looks like a 🦆 and walks like a 🦆, then it probably is a 🦆

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                                          If the dose recommendation is based on a puck height then 19g vs 16g means the 19g is higher density. Density changes from light to dark but also variety. Could also be saying you might want to grind comparatively finer. Personally, I wouldn’t pay attention to dose recommendations though as the roaster isn’t using your grinder, basket, and machine and you might be brewing a different ratio.