LMSC Thank you for your advice but, unfortunately, yes, I do need to compromise. It’s called marriage! 😀
The fundamental difference is that a B2C uses pressure while a filter does not. One system relies on pressure (that requires higher temperatures and finer grinds), while the other system relies on infusion.
There are three main variables, in coffee brewing:
Temperature
Surface area
Time
Filter coffee brewers and B2C coffee makers vary these three according to different philosophies.
LMSC Thank you for your suggestions and video.
Apologies for assuming that you did not live in England! In which case, condolences for your great loss. The best monarch (not only in English history but in the world) bar a few saints and a few historical figures. We were lucky to be offered the opportunity to pay homage to Her, without waiting in line for hours.
It is a very interesting video that (pleasantly) shocked me. The level of technical tuning that this chap goes to is unbelievable! Chapeau!
As for the compromise, as with all things, in the end, it boils down to priorities. Mine was a home and car over filter coffee: a larger home, a larger garage and a man’s cave, plus a toy car… for giving up an additional filter coffee machine on the kitchen counter, to avoid clutter in the morning, when we are all rushing out at the same time.
You know a lot about B2C and coffee. Unless someone chips in with a recommendation that ticks your proximity to filter or you are happy with Americano, I am afraid there isn’t anything much to what has already been stated here. Of course, other members may still chip in!
PS: Perhaps, considering your background, this is an area of expertise you may want to look into, try and check out who in your families and friends have B2C for you to try on. You may also contribute to our knowledge base in the B2C space. :-)
ascanio1 Did you read my reviews and watch the videos of the melitta varianza. Although it might not be the right machine for you, it will be useful to get an idea for some important things to look for in any bean-to-cup machine
ascanio1 Which one makes the closest iteration to a filter coffee?
The answer is “none”. B2C machines are designed to produce something ‘close’ to espresso, not to filter. We all appreciate your reasons and limitations, but there is no getting around that point.
The fundamental difference is not just that a B2C uses pressure vs. gravity/diffusion. Dosing and extraction timing are hugely different; we may end up with a similar % extraction from the coffee bean, but the ratio of coffee to water is not the same, and adding more water to the extracted brew after brewing is not the same. I don’t know if you have seen the Scott Rao video above - which is made on something which allows a degree of control that no B2C ‘end-user oriented’ machine is able to provide - but the interesting thing for me is that it still ends up as an Americano of sort.
CoyoteOldMan Thank you. This is probably the most helpful answer which suggests that all the above B2C will make the same, bad, approximation to a filter coffee and, therefore, I can buy the cheapest one, even though, within reason, cost is not a factor.
ascanio1 all the above B2C will make the same, bad, approximation to a filter coffee and, therefore, I can buy the cheapest one,
Or, since they will all be equally inadequate at producing a filter-like brew, depending on how large the ‘debt’ is, you may want to choose one that makes the most decent milk drink for your wife. You’ll be having an Americano anyway… 😉
This might be sacrilegious to suggest and I haven’t read the thread in detail but could you not just use pre-ground coffee in a Technivorm?
I’d be interested to see if there’s a marked difference in flavour quality in B2C coffee vs pre-ground in a decent filter machine?
We had a B2C machine on each floor at the last agency I worked at (not sure on model, was massive and had a touchscreen) and it was pretty terrible. I never dared to use the milk functions as the thought of the old milk in the plumbing put me off. I’d have taken pre-ground filter every time. And in fact I did, with a V60 at my desk.
Edit: I see you need to be able to make milk-drinks on demand also. I guess B2C is the only way!
CoyoteOldMan Thank you as your advice is, once more, useful. Since all B2C have the same extraction/temp/etc for their “filter” approximation I will focus on the best cappuccino and caffé’latte. I watched the videos recommended and it seems that the De Longhi offers the best cappuccino so, I presume, also the best caffé’latte.
In a different forum was recommended that I look at the new Nespresso Next, in its various iterations, suggesting that it makes a good approximation to filter coffee, when used in the “carafe” mode (my choice of word, taken from the icon in the image).
I doubt that my wife will agree to this Nespresso as it does not make coffee based milk drinks so the whole exercise may be pointless but, does this Nespresso Next (or other B2C) make coffee without using pressure and steam?
ascanio1 The problem is you want latte and cappa, which typically require espresso as a base, but a machine that makes filter coffee without pressure. Below is a machine that will automatically grind and brew, it’s relatively inexpensive as well and doesn’t commit you to pods. Melitta know what they are doing with filter stuff.
The problem is no one makes them with frothers, because of the logical exclusion of steamed milk into filtered coffee. This would then mean a separate milk frother which would take up counter space.
DavecUK Thank you Dave. The real problem is that I am married 🤣 jokes apart, of course you are correct.
My wife, today, uses filter coffee (⅔ or ¾) and adds milk (⅓ or ¼). Of course she’s not happy with this solution, and would much rather have an all-in-one machine that brews an espresso base for her caffé’latte. I also think that she is going to enjoy the cappuccino.
The Melitta that you recommend seems wonderful for my preferences but, alas, we are going with my wife’s preferences 🤷🏻♂️
I am not sure you will find what you want…although i seem to remember an all in one espresso machine and filter maker. Sort of like a sage with a filter machine tacked on the side.
ascanio1 I’ve looked around a bit. There are some, but they seem all really low quality (as in: £200-300 range for a ‘combined’ machine, sometimes including a smasher erm, grinder). De Longhi and Magimix are the two brands that keep coming up.
Thank you to everyone for your contributions.
It seems that it is irrelevant which B2C I will buy for my filter coffee. I have therefore shortlisted these:
Jura E8
De’Longhi Prima Donna Elite
Sage Oracle Touch
I will appreciate comments based on these three for other coffees as filter will not be an option. Thank you.
Whatever you do decide to go for, you may want to hold out until the Black Friday sales - still about 2 months away, but some places do start their sales earlier.
