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JHCCoffee This will give me a sense of what the chemistry of our local RO water is. I could then use that information and the TWW formulation information, and run it through Rob1’s spreadsheet (once it’s been updated).
It doesn’t need to be updated for you to do this. Only needs updating for dissolving carbonate or hydroxide in carbonated water….or I guess using carbonated water for anything to begin with but then why would you do that if it wasn’t necessary.
The recipe MWJB posted is from a very old thread over on homebarista.
I’ve found one of the threads with the recipe (there’s more than one). Here’s another quote:
"Classic Profile contains the follow
- ~95 mg/l Magnesium (Magnesium Sulfate)
~45 mg/l Calcium (Calcium Citrate)
~10 mg/l Sodium (Sodium Chloride)
~0 Alkalinity (Although there is some acidic buffering from the citric acid)
~6.6 PH (You may find it difficult to measure the PH from the lack of bicarbonate)Espresso Profile Contains
- ~85 mg/l Magnesium (Magnesium Sulfate)
~45 mg/l Calcium (Calcium Citrate)
~20 mg/l Potassium (Potassium Bicarbonate)
~30 KH Alkalinity
~7.6 PHThis is Taylor from Third Wave Water"
And then on the next page:
"No worries on asking difficult questions, I want to be as transparent as possible. Hopefully this will help explain our thought process and philosophy. For reference the tools that we use for measurements are Oakton PC 450 for TDS, Hach Titration kits (Total Hardness, Magnesium Hardness, Alkalinity, Sulfate & Chlorine), Thermo Scientific Orion 2 Star for pH, A&D HR120 Scale for weight and even a Versa Lab grinder for grinding down minerals
PREFACE:
Much of the communication difficulty comes in the how most people discuss TDS & mg/L. Before people could add exactly what they wanted to the water they had to rely on less accurate measurements for understanding what is in the water (you could have more specificity but what was available to the average person were simple techniques). TDS meters for measuring calcium and sodium and titration for measuring Alkalinity, Chlorine, Hardness, Sulfates etc…., these were the tools of the trade and simple TDS meters did the vast majority of the measurements.OUR THOUGHT PROCESS:
We use the less accurate but more widely used form of measuring TDS, the cheap and nearly ubiquitous TDS meter. This is b/c the vast majority of our customers will be able to communicate and understand the product and this is most likely the extent that they currently understand. For example: We aim for a total TDS of 150. If you put one packet in a gallon of distilled water and measure the TDS with a meter it will ready 150. If you were able to remove all of the magnesium sulfate from that packet and add it separately to a gallon of distilled it would read 95. If we talk about TDS in pure chemistry terms it will be too confusing to communicate properly.OUR PHILOSOPHY:
We think the most important aspect of water chemistry and water profiles are duplicability. We strive to create a product that will easily give people a repeatable and duplicable water experience. By grinding the minerals the same way and mixing everything in a V-blender, we can have a high degree of certainty that each stick will be a statistical representation of the last.IN CLOSING:
I know this community is much different than the average consumer. Your degree of understanding is much greater, therefore our degree of specificity and transparency should be greater. So for ease of communication I will just give you the measurements of each mineral in the packet. The desired weight of each packet it 1.5 grams, this can vary from packet to packet and we are always trying to reduce our variability bit that is the target. If the weight of one packet is different the overall ratios will still be the same.Classic 1500mg
Magnesium Sulfate 1100mg
Calcium Citrate 300mg
Sodium Chloride 100mgEspresso 1500mg
Magnesium Sulfate 1050mg
Calcium Citrate 300mg
Potassium Bicarbonate 150mgLASTLY:
We have found that the TDS of Magnesium Sulfate can not always be accurately measured (with out also factoring in a TDS meter) as the bound moisture can change over time, throwing off the weight. We are also working on vacuum drying some of the Magnesium Sulfate to create Anhydrous Magnesium Sulfate, this helps for storage and transportation to hotter areas. The anhydrous creates a natural desiccant inside the package and retards the decomposition from creating moisture in the package. This moisture can cause clumping in the Classic and can cause a chemical reaction in Espresso between the citrate and bicarbonate, puffing up the packets (they look like Barbie body pillows). If the anhydrous ever gets implemented I will need to update this above information for you all.I hope this helps better explain everything and as always if you have more questions please let me know. Feel free to DM me your phone number and I can talk to you over the phone if you want, these long posts can become tiresome.
-Taylor"
In response to somebody asking about the Magnesium in the first post, Taylor posts this in response:
**namelessone wrote:**Hi Taylor,
95mg/L of Magensium must be a typo? Do you mean 95mg/L of magensium sulfate? Otherwise it would result in some extremely hard water. On the other hand 45mg/L of Calcium Citrate would mean very little calcium, so I’m not sure what amount relates to which compound.
Those numbers are correct. The ~95mg/L of Magnesium comes from Magnesium Sulfate. The ~45mg/L of Calcium comes from Calcium Citrate.
Yes it is technically hard but the hardness is permanent hardness so as the temperature increases the minerals do not come out of solution and cause scale.
Taylor"
Which is not correct.
Citrate also provides alkalinity that won’t be measured correctly using a titration kit designed for measuring fresh water alkalinity (from bicarbonate).
Here’s a link to the thread: https://www.home-barista.com/water/third-wave-water-capsules-add-to-water-for-better-tasting-coffee-t49196-10.html