Hello! I'm Lance Hedrick and I'd like to address some things!
umm haha
anyone would think coffee is subjective lol
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Ernie1 I’m hardly a world championship coffee taster but med-dark tastes way better on flats to me than they do on conical.
Honest question: Is that your genuine perception or one unconsciously acquired due to being what everyone else is saying?
So the real question is: Have you tried that on a blind taste? If you have, then I accept your statement. :-) And is it just really flat vs conical or is it more of a case of preferring one grinder to the other?
Cuprajake we all agree flats tend to favour light roast?
The general view is clarify over body and mouth feel.
Ernie1 med-dark tastes way better on flats to me than they do on conical.
Is it because you are able to get a better differentiation of notes even in med-dark?
MediumRoastSteam Have you tried that on a blind taste
I think this can be challenging even for a super expert or a super taster. Sorry, I am not saying Ernie1 he isn’t! 🙂
I’d hope by my choice in machine and grinder it’s clear I don’t tend to just go with popular opinion.
I’ve not ‘blind’ tasted but I’ve done back to back with the same coffee on my SJ and the C40 a few times. I like both grinders so had no reason to favour one over the other.
Prior to these I’ve had 2 Mazzer Minis, Mahlkönig x54, Smart Grinder Pro (we don’t talk about that) and a Sette.
So I suppose the caveat is that I’ve not had a really good electric conical.
To me, conical highlights the more delicate flavours, brings out more acidity and overall has a thinner mouthfeel. These are characteristics I’d typically want in lighter roasts.
The flat to me has a richness, thicker mouthfeel and blends the flavours of darker roasts in a more enjoyable fashion.
To be clear this is exclusively for espresso. I use the C40 for all filter coffee and get decent results regardless of roast level.
As has been said though, it’s all subjective and I’m hardly the authority!
What can I say, my experience is diametrically opposed to yours. I have a 65E flat and a Niche and we drink dark roasts almost exclusively. I’m not saying the difference is night and day, my taste buds are not that good but we definitely prefer what we get from the Niche. Better mouthfeel, richer and less acidity. Your mileage obviously varies. I’d love to know why.
I thought conicals gave a more varied particle size verses a more uniform grind from a flat 🤷 who knows I only found out the earth wasn’t flat last week 🤣
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake The Earth is obviously flat white.
Ernie1 - good stuff! And thank you for taking the time to reply. At least you can truly say you prefer one over the other. I only have a Niche, and I am very tempted to buy a flat grinder because of everything that’s been said on the wider internet. I’m actually scared of buying one and then concluding I can’t tell the difference, or worse even, that I don’t have a preference of one over the other. I however, never had the opportunity to try them side by side, so the information you provided is very valuable, to me at least.
Many thanks!
It’s wierd.
I can taste a difference when using them, yet in a blind tasting didn’t get the results I expected haha so take that what you will,
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Ernie1 like rob666 my experience has been the opposite of yours however individual burr geometry and unique taste buds always play a part in this.
I think the great thing is that you’ve taste tested back to back and figured out what you like best.
At the end of the day, the best arbiter of what you like is what you like. 😃
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Ernie1 To me, conical highlights the more delicate flavours, brings out more acidity and overall has a thinner mouthfeel. These are characteristics I’d typically want in lighter roasts.
The flat to me has a richness, thicker mouthfeel and blends the flavours of darker roasts in a more enjoyable fashion
What’s interesting about these statements is that this goes completely against what most say on the internet. goes to show how personal and subjective taste is.
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MediumRoastSteam What’s interesting about these statements is that this goes completely against what most say on the internet. goes to show how personal and subjective taste is.
Exactly! I am surprised. I like these type of different take on grinders.
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I think as @tompoland says, burr geometry is playing a big part in my findings. I know there’s a subjectivity to it but I’d be surprised if anyone else wouldn’t notice the same as me (thicker body on the flat) with the exact grinders and coffee I’m comparing.
Comparing the Niche to my C40, the burrs on the Niche are 50% larger which will inevitably be making a big difference.
Perhaps a Niche vs a Super Jolly is a better side by side comparison. Even then I think there are too many other factors to say a once and for all ‘conicals taste X, flats taste Y’.
I don’t know how much each of these affect the result but you’ve got motor speed, burr alignment, burr orientation, burr teeth design, how seasoned they are etc etc before you even get into the coffee, age of coffee, how fresh it is, how it’s been stored, if it’s single dosed, WDT’d etc etc.
A lot of factors.
lancehedrick absolutely! I genuinely do try my best to be the in between of, say, Dave and Hoffmann. Meaning, quirky entertainment and deep dives. I don’t feign to have the knowledge or experience of Dave, nor the affability of Hoffmann, but I have helped a lot of people and that makes me happy.
One of the best things about Youtube is the diversity of both opinion and presentation. Personally, I’ve viewed quite a few videos from all three of you (and others) and I wouldn’t do that if I didn’t enjoy watching, and find them useful. The difference in style and approach only helps that.
It’s good to see you here. If nothing else, it means I can say thanks, for some excellent and very helpful material. Keep it up. ;)
If you grind a bean on a conical that is more suited to a conical (probably medium and above) then would you be surprised if it tasted better than if ground on a flat……and vice versa! I always respect those who have a palate that works properly (unlike mine) but I also respect my pal @DavecUK who drinks mediumish beans yet chose a Ceado E92 before his Niche and both are conical. I wonder if those who are lucky enough to have both……if they really really tried hard to tinker with their grinders, could not actually achieve neigh on the same results with both