This looks interesting https://www.sculptor.timemore.com/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=ads&utm_campaign=lead&utm_content=DC&UTM_term=Coffee+lover&fbclid=IwAR2CZ3pBMkQmWdqmucxQFVQcjydTECpokLraqERPCYHddmjT31GP7P_SWOY_aem_Ab_Qq4FTnxnzmHwzqPJq0Lx-_ekAqx6eLQKwGVI3lcjJRZZ8CNgjnGLrdVY4oEk9mrltM9bQRU2UKu6SvaFOrCzVLLIc1rMcnmjepbi0eFg76voPOkboOFlJ7kv7KwZn688&ad_id=23852712128540286&campaign_id=23852712087110286

I know lance hedrick has one as well, so will be interested to see a video on it

I registered interest and was sent a survey to complete. I looked at the questions and it was so skewed it was almost unbelievable. It was almost impossible to complete without giving 5 stars to something you have never seen, in every department.......so I binned it. Also, their use of English in the write up is decidedly odd!

Whilst I doubt it has a significant effect on the grinder's performance & function, it seems odd to do a grind analysis by a method with no available comparison, even odder that the % figures given don't match the curves in the chart.

> @"MWJB"#p33559 even odder that the % figures given don’t match the curves in the chart Dodgy. Cant help but think that makes any claims they make questionable.

@"dfk41"#p33556 very strange. The anti-marketing department hard at work? It may be a quality product but that sort of practice sets of alarm bells.

This kind of unintelligible 'data' is very common in coffee crowd funding (Invergo brewer, ROK grinder). It's not very reassuring, but the people posting usually don't understand the concepts they are trying to convey, luckily for the manufacturers, their prospective customers don't know what they are looking at either. If the burrs work and the grinder is built to reasonable tolerances then it will work normally. ...unlike my Timemore Nano which is only effective as a paper weight.

So many coffee themed kickstarters these days!

'Patented Burrs' I don't see what could be so novel in burr design that they would spend 10k patenting it aha. What the heck is a 'sensory motor'? The text about the motor is such a silly thing to mention. The Size distribution part was like they were forced to stick it in to appeal to the prosumer market. I'm sure the engineering is top notch because the quality looks high, but their marketing and English department needs improvement for sure.

Any indications of price yet? Aside from looking very similar to the Fellow Ode, I'd guess the 064 will perform very similarly too. 064s burrs in contrast look like standard Mazzer/Italmill clones, although the stepped settings could be an issue for dialling in espresso (even though I'm sure there'll be a workaround eventually). However if you can swap in SSPs and it can handle dense beans at fine settings and slow RPMs, who knows it could be an interesting grinder. Issue with 078 is that currently you'd be tied into their burrs or maybe the Xeoleo ghost burrs so it's a shame they didn't bump the motor size up for the smaller model or go for a more standard burr size for this one.

New kickstarter campaign for TIMEMORE Sculptor

chlorox

DavecUK

How is hedrick convinced by those grinders? Those comments above has basically given his view that the 78s burrs is no better at espresso than the df83 stock burrs which he prefers slightly to it and is surpassed by df83 with ssp and even by df64 with ssp HU burrs. He even says he thinks the balance and sweetness of df64 with stock burrs are preferable to the 78s burrs…

I didn’t really bother about the rest of his review as I am not interested in filter coffee and in the 64s but his reservations on the 78s has really given a valuable opinion as to qhat they may be like in practice - one that actually goes against the decision to buy one at this stage. So in that sense hedrick has done a great service to share his experience and opinion on an unreleased product that wil likely cause many people to cancel their kickstarter support for the 78s and wait for the dust to settle and for product release before buying in at the later stage.

DavecUK

chlorox How is hedrick convinced by those grinders?

I didn’t post the rest for brevity, but in reply to the total post. I lose track of exactly what he is saying from video to video. It’s like watching a deep sea squid or a chameleon on speed. There is a veritable word salad of stuff that tumbles out, drops onto the counter and falls to the floor, before you have had a good chance to looks at it. from early to late videos:

These grinders were great (not sure what he has)
the espresso burrs are going to be fantastic (doesn’t have them, now does he, they arn’t great, what’s going on)
Stalling not stalling (what)
differences between the 4 models (what)
Effect of RPM, usable minimums etc.. (nothing really)
latest video (another tumbling word salad of confusion)
lates tweet/post whatever (even more confusing)

So yeah, perhaps I cannot say how…as in truth, I am not sure what he is saying. The guy produces videos and “content” like a battery hen lays eggs.

chlorox

Cuprajake

Hedrick basically shared that the 78s burrs set is no better than a df83 with stock burrs and inferior to his taste to a df64 with ssp burrs. That is not a glowing endorsement but quite the opposite….

chlorox

Milko

If u like light roasts, I personally think a df64 with ssp unimodals or cast steel burrs is a very hard to beat combo at that price. That’s what I have got anyway and I have decided to hold fire on rhe 78s and wait for it to be released and maybe more burr choices arisingfirst before i think of buyingin.

LMSC

Milko

Based on your description, if I were you, I would wait for the 68s and 78s to drop, see people’s feedback, assess and go from there, if those are what you require. You will pay more but probably worth it, IMO.
You can get DF 83/ DF 64 and add SSP burrs set for filter and espresso to get the best of both worlds. Probably expensive proposition - depends on what you require (espresso or filter or both).
Wait for some real-world DF64v experience.

Milko it’s a faff to adjust anyway which puts me off making filter, so I only have espresso. Thats not so bad, I like espresso and espresso-based drinks but sometimes I drink a filter elsewhere and remember what I’m missing.

You have got two choices here - the Niche Duo or add a used hand grinder for filter to your current set up. I know you mentioned you are grinding the Compaq closer to zero, which may be a limiting factor.

What do you mainly drink ? Black or milk-based? light or the medium and above.

Bottomline:

Milko sometimes I drink a filter elsewhere and remember what I’m missing.

This is what you, IMO, must address first.

Milko

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. Currently I mostly drink medium to dark roasts in espresso or americano form, with an (somewhat more often now I bought a dual boiler machine recently) occasional flat white.

LMSC

Milko I think Niche Zero would serve you well for your roast profile, although you could go the flat way. You have plenty of choices on the flat space, subject to budget.

The general impression is the zero can’t do filter. @MWJB, who is our brew expert, has been using the zero also for filter. I believe he is happy with it. IIRC, he grinds around 32-34 for long steep clever and 92-94 for V60.

Emc2

I am very close to cancelling my pledge for the 078s. But I am looking for a nuanced flat burr experience. The Niche zero while pleasant doesn’t give the clarity that I seek.

I have a modified Super Jolly with stock burrs. I was wondering if replacing with SSP multipurpose burrs would be a better option. The workflow isn’t great but I’m not too bothered. Would be grateful for any advice.

chlorox

Emc2

I do not have any experience installing ssp burrs on a super jolly but I would suggest that the workflow pains of using a commercial hopper fed grinder in single dosing mode becomes old after a while based on about ten years using a k10 for single dosing. The df64 was a real breath of fresh air in terms of less faffing around but even the bellows on the df64 got a little tiresome after a while which got me looking at the 78s earlier.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam You do not drink diesel or petrol! My taste buds are pretty famous for being useless, but even I can taste the difference between a Zero and Duo using same bean

MWJB

LMSC The general impression is the zero can’t do filter. @MWJB, who is our brew expert, has been using the zero also for filter. I believe he is happy with it. IIRC, he grinds around 32-34 for long steep clever and 92-94 for V60.

I have yet to find a nominal, working grinder (as opposed to some super cheap, untested knock-off) that can’t do filter. I am more interested in coffee that tastes good, than has unusual clarity (coffee & roast are factors here as well as the grinder). High clarity is a bug, not a feature, of coffee brewing.

I think many people try to brew drip/pour over at unusually fine grind settings on the Niche Zero, mostly because of the suggested range on the fascia.

dfk41

Am I the only one to think, that influencers, especially coffee influencers take you back to the heady days of watching QVC? When did you ever see a QVC influencer showcasing a product and saying how bad it was? An influencer needs an audience if they are to make a living from what they are doing. This is the reason that the vast majority talk in vague terms. A question I have, is what qualification does Hedrick have, for him to consider himself as the go to Burr Man?

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 Hedrick have, for him to consider himself as the go to Burr Man?

Disclaimer! I’m not a fan of the guy. I’ve never been. Cringey stuff…

All I know is he was a latte art champion or something like that. And he has been working in a roastery for a while, presumably advising on recipes, profiles etc.

But ultimately, what makes someone to be a “go to Burr Man”?

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam

Hedrick clearly has a different personality from Hoffman or the Swedish coffee chronicler guy who looks like making a joke would physically injure himself (that was a joke by the way :) ). He plays drums on coffee gear and suddenly breaks into song etc so that’s his personality expressing himself….but for every person turned off by the level of humor he employs there are others to whom it appeals…

Cuprajake

Edited so I don’t get in trouble

dfk41

Cuprajake It is odd, why those who tell the truth like it is have to worry!

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK The guy produces videos and “content” like a battery hen lays eggs.

That’s their daily job after all (click me, subscribe, comment, please, please… 🤮) even though they don’t like saying it is. Just gives me the creeps.

Ps: I didn’t watch the video about the timemore grinders. I have no interest in the grinders or in the videos. Just a general comment from what’ve seen other times.

chlorox

DavecUK

The latest video looked very rushed so that probably exarceberated the confusion but yeah, I suspect he is like that in person (never met him but I’m guessing that WYSIWYG) and talks very fast in a stream of consciousness like torrent. But hey if that is how he is like, that’s what he has to work with and what he has to sell as his own type of presentation. As it was anyway, I understood the gist of what he was saying at the end about the 78s burrs - he clearly thinks it did not meet his expectation for it that was stirred up by his good experience with the 78 turbo burr set.

Cuprajake

I just don’t want to be involved I’m more crap can’t be arsed.

I just don’t trust most you tubers opinions. Especially these elite influencers. I recently got talking to one and he showed me the fees he charges for his work, which is to be an influencer, a single linked Instagram post

$400 and a 8min vid$ $5000

These guys are making great income.

When I released the first info on the duo, another prolific influencer was straight into my DM, with loads of questions, particularly about burr swapping and SSP.

Twice I gave this guy very specific information and twice within the hour of him getting this information he was passing it off as his own in comments section of vids, give the impression of knowledge, I didn’t like that and it really took the shine off it.

Most grinders you can buy these days are more than adequate, there’s a price point for everyone and as much as I’d argue there is hysteria around these cheap timemore the same can be said about the lorded titans, so It happens at both ends of the spectrum.

These influencers are there to influence you, make you want more always, it’s about getting you to spend, buy the latest.

Recently on here there was a guy looking at an Elizabeth and a niche £1600 worth, user is now looking at duo and lmlm £6000 that’s how quickly it escalates with the fear of buying wrong. Either of those setup will make stunning coffee

I side track

Just enjoy what you have, if the budget then fine, but don’t think spending triple will give triple the result.

Peace out

caffeinated-carp

Cuprajake Most grinders you can buy these days are more than adequate

This is something I’m thinking really. I imagine in all likelihood the 078s is going to be just fine and it’s all a storm in a teacup!

What happened to the old days where the advice was spend the majority on the grinder? Seems not to apply any more!

chlorox

Cuprajake

For me, I have decided to wait and see the dust settling and seeing the universal consensus if any that develops afterwards. No need to be the early bird and by then there may be a budget killer 98mm solo dosing grinder that comes out - which is what I really want to see being developed. I cannot afford the entry price for the current 98mm grinders on the market currently but am waiting for the df numbers to reach df98 or df100 to democratise that particular market segment :)

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam

To be fair though hedrick has said many times that the yoitube thing is a part time gig for him as he has a full time job.

caffeinated-carp

So I’m not sure which way to jump with this one really. I backed the 078s and am somewhat tempted to stick with that. I have a Mazzer mini at the moment and the workflow isn’t what I want, I’d prefer proper single dosing - e.g weigh beans and low retention in order swapping between beans, and a way to record how I dialled in a bean so I can return to that position easily. None of which the Mazzer do well!

It’s strange, when I was last actively in to coffee there were only fairly established grinders e.g Mazzer, it’s weird that now we have grinders from somewhat obscure brands. Timemore seem less obscure as apparently they’ve been doing hand grinders for a bit but the DF63 and DF83 seem very weird - a no-name company which sells under many brands, and from what I can tell the DF63 seems a little bit “DIY”, though I’ve never used one so that may not be fair.

I drink almost all milk-based drinks but I’ll start going back to espresso a bit more I think, I prefer medium to dark roasts but I would like to also explore lighter roasts at some point, so I want something to give me flexibility.

The niche looks amazing work workflow and for dialling in but apparently not super good for more modern, lighter roasts. It’s feeling to me like maybe the DF83 is the way to go because you can swap burrs to something more appropriate further down the line, but it would seem that the 078s has a nicer workflow, which is not to be sneezed at IMO. Then you seem to have far more expensive options like the Zerno, I could stretch to that if it did everything I’m after but it’s a bit much..

Then also there is the DF63 or 63v which I don’t know much about.

So much these days! Not an easy choice

chlorox

caffeinated-carp

IMHO maybe you should stick with your gut feeling if it is money that u can sink into the 78s without any issues - u may well be the one laughing over the good deal u have sticking with the kickstarter and discovering hedrick’s reservations were not shared by you once u got the 78s.

Cuprajake

caffeinated-carp if you are looking at the df83 take a good luck at the duo imo

caffeinated-carp

chlorox I don’t mind his personality, generally find his videos useful but yeh I think the sculptor one was rushed and to me just felt confusing and part done, not that surprising I guess, he didn’t have much time to do it.

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