The only reason I'm posting this is because I've been racking my brain and I think I've noticed a little correlation. When I was using the standard basket that came with my Elizabeth, the coffee was generally (70%) nice, not just nice but very nice. I could taste where my money was spent. That was designed for 16.5g. I am used to 14g (I know it's small but I can feel the difference, it's hard to explain but I feel it) so I decided to switch baskets from the standard to my 14g IMS. Since the switch, I am finding only about 30% of my coffee tastes nice, almost like a complete reversal. I know baskets can be forgiving, but can this really be the case here? Am I imagining it?

The 14g IMS (marked La Marzocco) on the left, the standard basket (that arrives with the Elizabeth) is on the right. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/JJkYsS7.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/JJkYsS7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

> @"DrForinor"#p35779 I know baskets can be forgiving, but can this really be the case here? Am I imagining it? Well… you are changing more than the basket here: you are changing the height of the puck, the dose (if I understand your post correctly from 16.5 to 14 grams) and possibly the grind. All of these will have an impact, as well as the basket itself. Plus… the other factor: coffee aging (and consistency from bag to bag). Having seen the photo, I'd say that 1) they do look quite different, and 2) given the narrowing in the IMS, I'm not surprised you have difficulties dialling it in/extracting properly.

The IMS doesn't actually narrow, it's the angle that it was taken at, that makes it appear that way. The Elizabeth has a more tapered basket, the IMS is relatively parallel. But all of those factors, you think contribute to making it harder to dial in? I thought if you have less coffee, it's easier to extract? Or have I managed to confuse something?

IMS on the left, standard Elizabeth on the right [URL=https://i.imgur.com/HJGIMZw.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/HJGIMZw.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

14g is small thats a traditional double personally id say get the ims competion basket 18-20 from memory or if you fancy it the ims e&b superfine

> @"DrForinor"#p35785 if you have less coffee, it’s easier to extract? Not necessarily. Singles are notoriously more difficult to work on… > @"DrForinor"#p35785 all of those factors, you think contribute to making it harder to dial in? No, but they are differences - the basket is only one of them.

> @"DrForinor"#p35795 standard Elizabeth on the right Have you noticed that it's by La Marzocco? I didn't know! But also - you can see that the IMS does taper quite considerably in the bottom third.

> @"CoyoteOldMan"#p35798 Have you noticed that it’s by La Marzocco? I didn’t know! Hehe yes I did, quite cool huh. But that taper is in the standard Elizabeth basket on the right, the left (14g IMS) has no taper. I'm trying coffee again in the standard Elizabeth basket, to see what I get.

@"DrForinor"#p35801 I think we may mean two different things with 'taper'. This is what I mean: [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/o7yqGyO.jpeg] The bottom of the IMS is quite a lot narrower than the top, and the narrowing begins half-way through the coffee-holding zone; the LM has a bit of tapering in the final 20%, but not much.

@"CoyoteOldMan"#p35804 Hehe, we are in full agreement about the taper. But the left (LM one) is what I am referring to my 14g IMS basket that has been giving me dial in issues. The one on the right is the supplied basket with Elizabeth that does 16-18g, optimised for 16.5g as my understanding is. The one on the right is the one I've had good results with, with ease. The left one is the one I'm struggling with.

IMS vs Lelit baskets

Ernie1

DrForinor

I feel the frustration. When I first bought a Silvia, first thing I did was get a VST basket and just pulled sinkers for like a week straight. Almost gave up on espresso altogether.

Stock basket, dodgy prep - great coffee and I was happy.

DrForinor

Ernie1 Was it your better puck prep that allowed you to move onto a precision basket?

Ernie1

DrForinor

Nope, it’s just because the last two machines I’ve had (Bianca and now Linea Mini) have come with IMS and VST baskets. If they hadn’t have done, I’d have just used the standard ones.

My puck prep is still lax. This is why I’m not sure if the La Marzocco baskets are the same as aftermarket VST. It seems to be far more forgiving than I remember the VST being but then it was a totally different machine with its own inconsistencies so too many variables to really know without seeing them side by side.

coffeeb

Firstly, it may be worth taking a look at this thread Basket Case - Coffeetime - World’s best non-commercial coffee forum (freeflarum.com) to hear more people talking about how much of a difference baskets make to the end result.

Assuming it’s the same basket that comes with the Mara as it is the Elizabeth, I find that 16.5g one (dosed with 15g in my case) is pretty forgiving, and I rarely end up with a poor shot. In particular I think it produces ‘round, sweet’ tasting espresso.

Recently I’ve switched over to the VST 15g (at 15g does) almost permanently as I find I have dialled in my prep such that I rarely get bad ones, and I find this basket (or probably more accurately the change in grind and flow) gets more ‘fruity’ notes which I prefer. However, it took a bit more practice to hit upon a good grind and prep level.

I would note that if I end up with a bag of dark roasted coffee I will generally switch back to the IMS/Lelit one as it brings out the sweetness more which counteracts the ‘burnt’ flavours.

Don’t forget that it’s about what you want to drink, so if you’re happy with the IMS/Lelit one, don’t be afraid to stick with that for the timebeing.

DrForinor

coffeeb I find that 16.5g one (dosed with 15g in my case) is pretty forgiving, and I rarely end up with a poor shot. In particular I think it produces ‘round, sweet’ tasting espresso.

This is exactly what I’m also finding.

ajohn

Sounds to me the fill height has been changed. Another way of looking it applies to any basket. The dose can be reduced but there comes a point where things do not work out. So put more in the problem basket and at some point it will function correctly.

The capacity of a basket is a bit tricky as in practice the real capacity may relate to the machine it’s on as machines vary,

Sometimes people buy a 15g VST basket and run into problems. Large area of perforations and a fairly shallow depth of grinds. People reply stresses the grinder more. I’d say prep gets more critical. Being a cheapskate I use a Fracino light double said to be 12g. In practice it runs ~13g on my machine. A very dense bean might make 14. With a much less dense unusually light bean it’s about 12,7g, 13 is a bit too much,

IMS are a major filter basket maker for a whole variety of machine makers. Competition baskets are for just that competitions. All taking part have to use the same basket. They also produce such things as nano coated probably for the prosumer rather than commercial market.

hornbyben

@DrForinor if you want to check the headspace just prep your portafilter, place a small coin (e.g. 5p) on top, lock the portafilter in, than take it back out. A slight impression and you’re probably at max load, no didn’t at all and you could go higher, significant impression and you’ve probably not got enough headspace

DrForinor

hornbyben That’s a good tip, thanks.

ajohn

I would say no impression of a 5p but another thing to look for is any sign of an impression of the shower screen on a used puck. Maybe the fixing screw, It can be ok to run with a slightly overloaded basket but it means that the grinder will be set coarser than it need be for some fixed time and ratio. The grind expand when they get wet.

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