Why you might not want to buy a Londinium

DavecUK

Oh I only just noticed this as well, another recent addition,, I obscured the customers name, so his real name isn’t repeated by our site.

I wonder how his customer feels about his real name being splashed out all over the internet, after posting on a forum about issues with his Vectis, under a forum name. That surely breaches data protection and any shred of moral code a company should have!

Gagaryn

DavecUK I wonder how his customer feels about his real name being splashed out all over the internet

Probably not a great idea to repost his name here then, that’s just making a bad situation worse.

Systemic Ad hominem attacks show the author in a very bad light. Moreover, it shows that their argument is weak so they have to trash the author’s reputation.

Agreed - disappointing that this thread retaliates by doing the same thing back.

DavecUK bullies don’t stop until you stand up to them and call it out….which is all I am doing.

Why not just stand up to them directly wherever these comments are hosted? They aren’t even here as far as I know, they certainly aren’t posting on this thread so it seems a strange to describe this thread as standing up to them.

dfk41 The point of the thread is to tell Reiss and his cronies that we will no longer sit and watch as they play vile games to which they are used to getting away with

As above - wrong place to do that - are “Reiss and his cronies” even on this forum? If you want to fight them on the beaches, go to the beaches. Get somebody to hold your coat while you deck him. This thread is more akin to going home and whinging.

Systemic

DavecUK I know I say always play the ball not the man

Ad hominem attacks show the author in a very bad light. Moreover, it shows that their argument is weak so they have to trash the author’s reputation.

Way back, on another forum, there was a cabal who routinely trashed DaveC’s reputation at every given opportunity - making the same snide untrue comments that Reiss parrotted on his blog above. They did their level best to have DaveC banned and were, briefly, successful until the forum owner saw sense lifted the ban and invited DaveC to become a moderator which enabled us to silence the cabal and turn around the forum.

For Reiss to parrott those self same snide untrue comments is revealing. He has done himself no favours and does not come out of this at all well. If he were man enough, he would apologise to DaveC. But in the echo chamber that is Londinium, I don’t think that will happen.

DavecUK

I’m thinking of splitting this off into a separate thread titled. “Why you might not want to buy a Londinium”.

dfk41

DavecUK Makes sense. No need to adulterate another thread!

John_Yossarian

DavecUK “I’m thinking of splitting this off into a separate thread titled. “Why you might not want to buy a Londinium”.”
Now you are talking 😃

Systemic

Good idea Dave 👍

DavecUK

I split this off because it adulterates another thread and I thought it important enough to have it’s own thread.

It all kicked off when @lancehedrick produced a review of the Londinium Vectis which Reiss clearly didn’t like, although I thought it was very fair, in fact more than fair.

There was some comment on HB which started here and seemed to triggger Reiss Gunson. https://www.home-barista.com/levers/user-experience-londinium-vectis-t88435-180.html#p956925

https://www.home-barista.com/levers/londinium-vectis-spring-lever-lance-hedrick-review-t90220.html

The owner of Londiniums response was to throw his toys out of the pram and post this, which was amended a few times to eventually add me into it as well!

I think his behaviour is the antithesis of what we should expect from a company, even if it is a one man band with his machines built and delivered by another company, he has no factory full of employees to worry about, so the only person being damaged by this is himself (apart from those customers who has fallen out with him). When they do they are often excommunicated from the private Londinium (support) forum and I have had people tell me they were informed their self repair parts warranty was now invalid.

I have in the past removed a few negative posts about the Londinium machines/Service before most people would have seen them. I don’t think I can extend that courtesy to Reiss Gunson any longer. We are non commercial, have no advertisers and hence nothing to gain by protecting him any longer.

dfk41

Back in late 2012, I ordered a brand new L1 but the Luxe version. This came with glass side panels and a polished set of pipes and boiler that were covered in a see through material (like varnish but not varnish if you follow) to protect them. In those days there was a serious queue for machines as Fracino only had a small amount of line production per week. In early 2013, mine turned up and I could not have been happier. I had no experience with levers but loved the concept. After a couple of weeks use, it started to leak from every connection that carried water. What happened, was that the coated pipes and nuts could not be tightened enough at the factory, so they sent them out anyway. Reiss suggested wrapping the nuts with a cloth and trying to tighten. I was not happy with this solution and sent the machine back. It lay for a while and a compromise was reached. I would buy it back with the glass panels removed and normal steel ones fitted with all the nuts tightened.
A few months later, an L1 Luxe appeared for sale on the Londinium blog. A cafe in Edinburgh was buying the first Londinium 2 group and Reiss agreed to help promote the sale of their Luxe. I emailed him and asked if he would transfer the remaining warranty. I thought if their machine had been used in a cafe without issue, then it would work for me. He said, ‘absolutely’ so I made arrangements with the guys and bought it. I found out later that they had not used it in the cafe as it was under construction and had barely been used at all.
About a month later (my habit is to switch the machine on at 8 am and turn off around 4pm) I noticed that all the pipes that had been nice and shiny were turning pink. On closer inspection they were building up a deposit on them that you could scrape off in small pieces.I emailed Reiss between Christmas and the New Year to explain what had happened, for him to tell me the machine had no warranty. I pointed out that I had emailed him and asked for confirmation and he had said ‘absolutely’. He then claimed he thought I was trying to help a friend buy the machine and had he known that it was for me he would not have agreed to honour the warranty.
I could go on and on, but for some folks, this is a good example of Reiss turning nasty when it suits him, which contrasts with the ‘legendary’ customer service he offers some folks.

Gagaryn

I think this thread is a mistake.

My understanding is that this forum was created from a desire to move beyond the factionalism, name calling, toxicity and pettiness that existed elsewhere. Creating this thread doesn’t seem aligned with that aim.

You won’t change this individuals behaviour. The way I see it, there are two option; you can either leave him to it, and have the schadenfreude of watching him destroy his reputation and business, or you can respond in kind to his toxicity. Don’t take the bait.

dfk41

Gagaryn I agree with you, to a certain extent. The problems of the past are often referred to and a lot folks may well not be aware of the facts. Hence my support for leaving it.

DavecUK

Gagaryn He has been protected by that for too long and my online life made a misery by minions who worked for him and no doubt him in the background. CFUK used to be the "Londinium forum. I was told once, bullies don’t stop until you stand up to them and call it out….which is all I am doing.

He has mentioned me negatively online (with lies) before on more than one occasion and I said nothing….did it stop..no.

When I and 2 others were banned from CFUK did the Londinium mob stop…no, they came and crowed on the small forum I had and did their best to destroy that, before this one was created.

If Reiss wants to remove comments about me from that news rant and apologise, then I might remove this thread

Gagaryn

DavecUK bullies don’t stop until you stand up to them and call it out….which is all I am doing.

He has mentioned me negatively online (with lies) before on more than one occasion and I said nothing….did it stop..no.

You’d be better talking to him in private if you want to try to influence his behaviour. No good comes from publicly washing dirty linen - to mangle a metaphor, no pun intended! IMHO of course.

Systemic

DavecUK If Reiss wants to remove comments about me from that news rant and apologise, then I might remove this thread

Reiss is his own worst enemy. He can be very helpful to owners experiencing problems. Sadly, if he thinks you are being in anyway critical, you run a real risk of experiencing a very different response. As an ex-Londinium owner, I have seen both sides. Since Londinium forum went ‘members only’ with Reiss controlling who is allowed in and who isn’t, as was my experience despite being a Londinium owner, I am sure there are a lot of Londinium owners reluctant to speak out for fear of being refused assistance if and when something goes wrong. This way, Reiss has been able to control the narrative as Londinium is a closed church where dissent is heresy and non-believers are cast out into the dark.

Reiss’s ill-judged response to Hendrick’s review has brought him a mountain of negative publicity and is an own goal of ironic proportions. Hendrick will move on. The ones I feel sorry for are the Londinium owners who aren’t happy but daren’t say so.

Systemic

DavecUK God help any owners that get on the wrong side of him…

Getting longer by the day.

Systemic

Gagaryn You’d be better talking to him in private if you want to try to influence his behaviour.

Rather difficult if you’ve been cancelled.

Over the years, Reiss has regularly trashed other manufacturers’ kit but cries foul if anyone raises the slightest criticism of Londinium no matter how valid. He is not averse to making claims about his products some of which are fanciful at best and downright misleading at worst.

DaveC had to endure years of trolling by a cabal who used every opportunity to accuse him of being paid for reviews either in kind or monetarily. Yet one of DaveC’s principal trollers had a relationship with Reiss where he got, gratis, the latest Londinium iteration over which, of course, he lavished much praise without disclosing he had received the machine free. So it is very revealing that Reiss chose to raise the pay to play troll in his rant at Hendrick’s review.

The old saying, ’if you can’t take it, don’t dish it’ springs to mind. Reiss might be advised to reflect on it.

dfk41

You cannot talk to people like that @Gargaryn. In my youth I did door security, back in the 80’s. You did not need to be licensed in those days. The first port of call was always to try and defuse a situation and try to talk. That is the correct thing to do but if someone attacks you, then you have to react in a different way. You react to what is in front of you using appropriate force. No one asked Reiss to publicly call out Dave, and not for the first time. The bad old days of CFUK saw some absolutely horrible behaviour by a certain bunch and they got away with murder. I doubt that you, or for that fact 99% of people are aware of what went on behind the scenes. This is not a knee jerk reaction by Dave. This has been a long time in coming.

Gagaryn

dfk41 You cannot talk to people like that @Gargaryn.

Yup - I agree, which is why I suggested he should simply be left to slowly destroy himself. The response was that he needs to be stood up to and called out. I disagree - I think what’s done is done, let it lie. But if there really is a burning desire to stand up to the bully - best done in private.

This thread won’t change anything and to think it will is daft - as the young folk say - the haters will still hate. It just becomes a big pile on. It’s pointless and ugly.

Nobody comes away looking good from a public slanging match - even those who know they are right! My opinion - you’ll have yours.

Anyway, you do you. I’m out. Pitchforks out, burn the witch. :-)

Loonster

Engineering is the art of compromise. Improving something in one area often results in negatives in other areas.

If you own the compromises that were made, they are not necessarily flaws, but design decisions. If you become defensive and confrontational, it’s like admitting that the decisions were not well thought out and truly are flaws.

dfk41

Gagaryn Pitch forks not needed. Believe me, if the right approach was to make contact behind the scenes then that would have been done. I say this once again. When someone is standing in front of you, telling you what he is going to do with you blow by blow, you are most welcome to talk as much as you want…….me, he gets decked and the problem is solved. The point of the thread is not to change anything. The point of the thread is to tell Reiss and his cronies that we will no longer sit and watch as they play vile games to which they are used to getting away with………..because no one in the past has stood up and been counted. Bullies continue to bully until they are stopped. Whoever wrote the pen is mightier than the sword is a daft twat!