It annoys the beejesus out of me when manufacturers use stickers instead of laser etching.
I regard it as a short cut that says “we’re not too concerned about appearance or longevity with this grinder and we couldn’t be faffed organizing things better so we thought we’d let you know that by putting a sticker on top instead of getting it laser etched.”
I didn’t like the first generation of DF64s or DF83s but I do like the DF64V and I’ve got a DF83V coming once the DF factory re-opens* and maybe it will be great, but that darned sticker will still annoy the heck out of me. So this is not a “let’s bash DF rant, and all hail the mighty Duo” thing. I like most of the DF stuff, but a sticker at this end of the price range? God spare me.
I know I shouldn’t get so upset about a stupid little sticker but I can’t help but wonder if the manufacturer takes a shortcut like that on the outside, what shortcuts have they taken on the inside, hidden from view?
Agree, it doesn’t necessarily follow but how do we judge a book?
(* They started their move to a larger factory during Chinese New Year and it may take up to a month before production is in full swing again.)
PS anyone got a valium? Sticker-induced blood pressure is getting dangerously high….
tompoland To me a sticker says the manufacturer views it as a short-term throwaway item. I’ll be buying a Duo, but if not I’d happily spend more for P64, Zerno, Moca SD, or the new Philos; all built for the long-haul.
I am not impressed by the sticker as well and do think it could and should be a laser etched etc. At the same time I can’t agree this means the product is a short term throw away item.
My Vesuvius has an acs sticker, lelit maraX had a sticker and I would not class them as a this.
It’s only been a week of use so far from any serious judgment but it seems a better thought through product than the df83 was.
I didn’t have to slow feed even using light roast. I am using 600rpm at the moment so can’t comment on lower.
The grind consistency is very good. Using the same setting the pour seems to be consistent within ½ seconds.
No loose grounds flying around which I love. I literally had to brush off minimal amount once this week. The magnetic chute is also a nice feature.
Using RDT I always get everything out. Obviously this involves using the bellows. Without 0.3-0.5g gets stuck. Saying that there’s no ground flying anywhere while using the below which was the issue with df83.
Although it’s a nice feature with magnetic cup I much prefer the Niche design as it isn’t as thick and doesn’t touch all the way down to the basket when inverting to empty.
Found it very easy to dial in different coffees to this point.
One of the differences between this and duo I found is while getting same ratio at the same time with the duo the first drip occurs few seconds later but the flow rate is faster whereas on the df83v first drip comes earlier but get a steady lower flow rate at the moment.
Had no issues with the dial mentioned above. Might be because I tightened it once while adjusting the zero point on initial setup.
For the first three/four days I’ve not tried hot starting at all and had no issues with stalling etc.
this weekend I started doing it on an off to see if it makes any difference to the extraction but didn’t notice anything major.
I will make some notes on flow times hot starting and not over next few days and post an update.
There just seems to be something about these Chinese variable speed brushless systems, they do seem to have stalling issues. perhaps not all, or perhaps it’s for light roasted beans. I don’t know but too many reports about it now to not be a “thing”.
I have some suspicions as to what it might be and why some may start out not stalling then get worse and worse…
DavecUK The real differentiator between DF and Niche, Option O, Olympic, Zerno is that the DF stuff is first and foremost cheap. That is its principal virtue. I cannot conceive that anyone would purchase a DF instead of a P64 for example if they were the same price.
Since cheapness, not longevity nor reliability, is the chief design criteria, something must go. Otherwise it would cost as much as a P64. It is price versus quality.
DavecUK There just seems to be something about these Chinese variable speed brushless systems, they do seem to have stalling issues.
Agree, the pattern of stalling is well established at lower RPM and yes, there and there is a need to hot start.
I’m running light beans through the DF64V at the moment but at 1,000RPM and hot starting of course. Three days in and no issues at all. I’ll try 600RPM and see what happens.
(Personally I have no issue with hot starting or cold starting, but the manufacturer needs to be upfront and explicit about these limitations or requirments)
giampiero I think of Weber as a sort of Yves St Laurent sports car, i.e, not well-engineered but designed to appeal to a certain type of consumer. The fact that it is so while being expensive has nothing to do with the quality trade-offs in DF products. Again, assuming same price, who would actually not buy the Option O, Zerno, etc?
As mentioned last week I’ve been making notes so see below.
Purposely didn’t adjust grind size if shots run too fast or too slow without trying both hot/cold starts first, unless it was way out.
Mainy used 600 rpm except few as highlighted, 8 sec 2 bar preinfusion followed by declining profile 9-8-7-6 bar for all shots. Normacore tamper, for double shots, to take one variable out. One spray of water.
Had two attempts at 400rpm.
No stalling to report.
List isn’t chronological as have been changing coffees daily/morning evening but kept notes against each particular coffee.
One thing I noticed, comparing to Niche, is with most coffees I could maintain the ground setting between 7.5g & 15g VST baskets whereas on df83v it requires a notch finer grind for 7.5g basket.
When adjusting grind size by more than two levels there’s obviously some grounds left as the first shot is always slightly out compared to the following.
A lot of trial and testing is required to see what difference does each change of rpm make and what impact on flow, taste etc it’s got. This is a task for @tompoland grinder lab!
I am happy how the grinder performs to this point with results being consistent enough.
Do you need variable rpm or is it just a bonus when you fancy to play with it and/or you know what you doing ? I think this is for every person to assess on their own .
Video below using cold start 400rpm.
Volcanic Java Kopi Bayukidu 15.5%FC/14.6% loss. roast date 22/2/24
prezes A lot of trial and testing is required to see what difference does each change of rpm make and what impact on flow, taste etc it’s got. This is a task for @tompoland grinder lab!
It’s on my list of comparisions for sure.
I also want to blind taste compare 64mm verus 83mm burrs, starting with SSP Espresso (HU)
(Just received an email to say that my DF83V (and DF54) are being shipped this week.)
Great post thanks, super interesting.
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