WDT and Tamping…
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drdre89 not in my experience. It depends how long you shake for. The longer you shake, the slower the extraction. Also, in the experiments by Lance, there was no difference in extraction times between WDT and shaking. In the latest video in which he explains how he makes espresso, he has recommended doing faster shots- this is not the consequence of shaking. It’s simply how he prefers his shots.
MediumRoastSteam You have to be happy with what works for you. If grind, tamp, pull works… Happy days. If you feel the need that things taste better adding further steps, happy days too.
Exactly that.
I guuess it’s about motivation, and objectives. My objective is a cup of coffee I enjoy, and my motivation is pretty much finding the simplest way of getting there.
That said, I’m certainly up for considering both extra tools, and a change in technique. I would also concur that a degree of applying a rigorous approach and methodology can produce …. ‘insights’. How much of a given suggestion, say a WDT tool, is mythology and marketing, and how much produces a significant difference.
And that word, “significant” is where, personally, I draw the line.
If I buy, and apply, a WDT to my workflow doess it result in a difference I cabn taste? and of course, is that difference an improvement? The same logic applies to any new tool or technique - what’s the cost, both in time, effort and of course, money. And does it result in a predictable and reasoably consistent improvement in taste? If not, what’s the point?
But there’s one over-riding, critically impotant factor - exactly ONE person (me) is tasting my coffee with my tastebuds.
So while I wouldn’t disparage any amount of testing, any use of toos whether rigourously justified or simply preferred ritual, that anyone ELSE wants to do. They’re using their tastebuds, which may well be better than mine, OR it may simply be that they’re into the ‘mystique’ of coffee prep rituals? If that’s what floats teir boat and tey enjoy it, fair enough.
I’ve done what, for me, is quite a lot of testing of what works and have subjectve notes (my own little points system) on every (and I do mean every) cup I’ve brewed in several years. All my data suggests that, for me, most of the fancier messing about with technique don’t produce a cup noticable better in taste. So I no longer faff about. I grind the coffee, up-end the grind cu into the prtafilter basket, give it a quick tap, a quick shake to level it out some, tap the grind cup to dislodge as much grinds as possible and remove it. A quick smooth of any mounds, if any , then I use a couple of twils of one of those leveller thingies (mainly because I bought the damd thing and it wasn’t cheap, so I’m absolutely using it, quick tamp and off to the races.
About the one thing (once grind size is about right) has has occupied my time is trying to simply be consistent, especially with tamp pressure. Thiss is tricky for me, as much for medical reasons as anything. But lack of that consistency certainly does have a noticeable impact on brew times. So I do all I can to be consistent.
Beyond that, and as long as I get a nice cup, I don’t care for faffing about. I don’t care if extraction is a tiny bit higher or lower, if time is a bit more or less UNLESS it results in a noticeably worse drinking experience.
As you said, Medium, pretty much grind, tamp and pull (more or less) works for me, and I’m happy enough with the results.
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I have added slow feeding to my routine and re started using the blind shaker again that I had stopped using months ago. Not really sure if I can detect any material change or improvement but I will keep doing it to assess over a longer time.
chlorox I have added slow feeding to my routine
Does the Niche Z, through its rotating anti-popcorning disk, effectively slow feed? Just how slow are we talking about?
Then there is “hot starting”.
Ok, shake, well actually shake blind. Then go hot then go slow. In the human world that’s well, a challenge 😁
This is all getting quite silly 😂
I implement it here
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Slow feeding with the Niche ? I thought this wasn’t necessary nor beneficial ?
mailto:kafar@btinternet.com
prezes Only tried it for pour over, once, no improvement in the brew, it moved the average grind size slightly coarser, without significantly affecting the distribution.
What it did do though, was very effectively launch whole & partial beans into the air. Even if there was a tangible benefit, I’m not doing it again.
I’ve given the Blind Shaker style distribution tool a fair go, for quite a number of shots. It does seem to increase the density of the grounds in the puck and (based upon taste only - I haven’t done any refractometer tests) increase espresso strength.
But unless you release the grounds perfectly into the basket, you get clumps and visually uneven distribution; it’s rare to not have surface clumps with the Blind Shaker. Carefully twirling and lifting the stick helps, but I still see surface clumps. I break these up with a quick surface rake, but I just don’t like having them there.
And I do generally see evidence of less than perfect distribution. When I first started using the blind shaker, I saw significant evidence of pour distribution. As my technique improved it got better. But still sometimes less than perfect.
Moreover the flow (and time) varies with just how and how long you shake. I can visually see this in my shot graphs, on the Decent. So it adds a variable that I don’t need or want.
So I am going back to WDT for a while. This will likely produce a somewhat less dense puck (I noticed that my shots ran faster with WDT and slower with the Blind Shaker) which means that I will have to grind finer. But atleast my shots will return to being consistently more even.
I had eliminated distribution (and channelling) as a variable, along with tamping as a variable, along time ago. The buzz generated from a certain influencer’s hyperbolic video made me give the Blind Shaker a whirl, but I am going back to my tried and true. Kudos to him for doing the tests; it’s good to try and test new things. It’s just not for me.
JHCCoffee The buzz generated from a certain influencer’s hyperbolic video made me give the Blind Shaker a whirl, but I am going back to my tried and true. Kudos to him for doing the tests; it’s good to try and test new things. It’s just not for me.
Sure, do what works best for you, but the idea didn’t originate from said influencer, he just popularised it.
Its been proven to do something, but the amount of faff it adds is a no for me, messy, pita to prat with, give me a twirly stick anyday
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
So I am using the shaker just not shaking- i just grind into it .. the extra space lets the grounds move around but they stay nice and fluffy.
Then I drop them into the portafilter - i use a collar to give it more height without the mess / then give it a stir tamp and off we go.
Prefer this way due to the lack of mess - and no grinds left in the shaker.
A fair while ago I bought one of those 3D printed WDT Spirograph tools on Etsy. I tried it, didn’t notice any improvement over good manual WDT, didn’t like the clunky feel of it and added it to my junk box collection of undesired espresso accessories. And as my tried and true manual WDT (using 5 × 0.35mm needles in a handle) works well, and as I have other things to focus on, I haven’t bothered to pull it out again.
Did I give up on that too soon? Has anyone had any success with these, and continue to use them?
Btw. I’m not keen on spending $$$$ on Weber or similar tools unless they are gamechangers.
FYI, a very capable and knowledgeable Decent owner (and Decent skin and profile developer) named Damian uses an EWDT tool that he built.
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I’ve just bought one of these funnels from Etsy I’ve a needle WDT stirrer thing but my shots in a NPF are a bit spritzy and make a mess of the cup so I’m trying to improve my distribution so that the espressos are better plus no messy cups, hopefully.
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1180348898/magnetic-portafilter-dosing-funnel-54mm?ref=yr_purchases
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Is that funnel a lipless kind (i.e. without a shelf extending into the portaifkter itself)? Will it fit exactly and securely onto a LSM sized portafilter?
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Twotone2 I’ve a needle WDT stirrer thing but my shots in a NPF are a bit spritzy
You may wish to try the following, if you are not already:
- use 0.35mm acupuncture needles
- use 5 to 6 needles spaced widely apart (8 is too many)
- Make sure your dose lands in the PTF in a nice centred mound
- Don’t tap, at all
- Knock the mound down with the needles
- Then do deep small concentric circles with the needles. Do this deep in the puck, with your needles almost touching the bottom of the basket. Do the centre (the hole in the donut). Then do a series of concentric circles around the donut. Then do the same middle level in the puck. Then do lightly do the top level. Then do a quick light surface rake.
- Don’t overdo the WDT. Less is more. You don’t want to be moving the grounds around. Just breaking up clumps.
- Don’t tap.
- Then use a self leveling tamper (like an EazyTamp) to do a level tamp at a consistent pressure
- RDT your beans if your humidity is low and you are getting static grounds cling
The above works for me.
There are influencer videos on this topic but (with rare exception) I don’t like influencers. Some are too hyperbolic and promotional in their approach, showing obviously over inflated egos.
chlorox Is that funnel a lipless kind (i.e. without a shelf extending into the portaifkter itself)? Will it fit exactly and securely onto a LSM sized portafilter?
Yes as far as I know it is lipless which is why I bought it plus the reviews said that the magnets are really strong and the guy selling it said he has put more magnets on this version.
I’m using a 15g VST basket in a 58mm Elektra PF so hopefully it will fit my set up.
I’ve also a cheap ie light NPF that I use with all of my baskets up to 20g so hopefully it will fit on all of them.
No idea about the LSM portafilter, sorry.
JHCCoffee You may wish to try the following, if you are not already:
use 0.35mm acupuncture needles
use 5 to 6 needles spaced widely apart (8 is too many)
Make sure your dose lands in the PTF in a nice centred mound
Don’t tap, at all
Knock the mound down with the needles
Then do deep small concentric circles with the needles. Do this deep in the puck, with your needles almost touching the bottom of the basket. Do the centre (the hole in the donut). Then do a series of concentric circles around the donut. Then do the same middle level in the puck. Then do lightly do the top level. Then do a quick light surface rake.
Don’t overdo the WDT. Less is more. You don’t want to be moving the grounds around. Just breaking up clumps.
Don’t tap.
Then use a self leveling tamper (like an EazyTamp) to do a level tamp at a consistent pressure
RDT your beans if your humidity is low and you are getting static grounds cling
Thanks @JHCCoffee, I have one of those needle things with eight needles so I’ll remove two.
I have a Niche Duo which produces no clumps, thankfully.
I’ve been looking at the Normcore spring tampers but I’ll check out the Eazytamp.
Great advice thanks again.
Tony