Juggle_Josh How do you tamp, do you tamp very hard? I have a (normcore) spring loaded tamper so believe I can’t go past a certain amount of pressure. I thought you couldn’t really tamp too hard though? 😅

You’re grind looks too loose for 18 or even a 16g shot, it needs to be tightened up a little Can you clarify what you mean by loose?

Well some people try and jump on the tamper

You need a finer grind

Watch my video on tamping (the issues I talk about are made even worse by overly hard tamping)

I don’t understand how “a finer grind” will solve the problem here.

OP says that first shot runs ok; subsequent shot runs faster by 8 seconds or so (can’t remember exactly). Op says the behaviour is consistent.

OP mentions the use of a calibrated, spring loaded tamper.

How will grinding finer solve the issue?

    DavecUK - I understand. But the first shot is always right - with the same grind. So if OP tightens the grind… the first shot in the session will run significantly slower. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding something here.

      DavecUK The grinder can only grind or not grind, it has no way of knowing which is the 1st or second shot.

      Until the new “AI” grinders come out …

      Could be the OPV overshooting on the second shot. Which is the problem I used to have when I had the Elizabeth.

      Op. Have a look at the pressure gauge to see if does anything weird and overshoot

        MediumRoastSteam I understand. But the first shot is always right - with the same grind. So if OP tightens the grind… the first shot in the session will run significantly slower. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding something here.

        I thought the 1st shot was too fast

          If I’m having a couple of shots and prep and pour the first one , prep the second one and stick the portafilter in the group head ready to pour, I get a gusher 10 mins later when I pour it, hence stopped doing it.

          4 days later

          Inspector

          Wow thanks I’ll give this a go!

          When you say 3 times? You mean 3 rounds of the pre set multiple cycles or three little back flushes? Hopefully that makes sense? Thanks so much I think this may finally fix my issue? Who knows I’ve tried so much at this point 😂

          Do you think I should try and get a new opv?

            dfk41

            With both shots I pretty much pull the shot straight away after it’s in the portafilter

            Juggle_Josh

            You can put blind basket and press only brew button and run machine about 8-10 seconds, stop, then do a quick back flush via pressing 1st and second button, that should do it too. I normally do three back flushes via pressing 1st and 2nd button.

            Important thing is that machine comes up to pressure and stabilise somehow.

            Let us know how you get on please.

              Inspector

              Ok so I have done 2 tests today and seems like the problem is still there :(

              Test 1
              prep machine: 30 min warm up time then a 10 second shot into a blind basket followed by 3 back flushes. I’ve then waited for temp to return to normal.

              shot 1: 25.6g out in 33 seconds

              shot 2: 30g out in 33 seconds

              (I left the machine to cool down for a few hours then went again…)

              Test 2
              prep machine: 30 min warm up time then a 10 second shot into a blind basket followed by 3 back flushes. I’ve then waited for temp to return to normal.

              shot 1: 30.9g out in 33 seconds

              shot 2: 39.2g out in 33 seconds

              The pressure gauge didn’t seem much different but maybe I should look closer at it while the shot is pulling?

              it’s also interesting how shot 1 on the second test matched shot 2 from the first test, not sure what on earth is going on there…

              Thanks again!

              • Ando replied to this.

                How are you emptying the basket in readiness for the second shot? Are you rinsing? Washing it?

                If you are rinsing the basket, make sure it’s bone dry before making the second shot. Or, just dump the puck, clean it well with a paintbrush or similar, wipe it with a dry cloth and go again.

                Also, is the portafilter hot for the first shot? Do you leave it partially locked in the group while machine heats up?

                  Juggle_Josh I had this issue with my Elizabeth for whole time I owned it (3 and a half years).

                  My solution was to give the first shot of day to my wife 😂

                  I tied myself up in knots thinking it was puck prep / grinder etc Bit since changing machine I no longer have this problem.

                  Niche Zero

                  Niche Zero