Where’s your palate at?

JimmyP Question one being?

JimmyP Exactly what I find ideal for my preference in espresso only… A dialed in Silvia Pro, recently did a pump swap so I can push extractions into the 90+ second range if I choose. Grinder is a Baratza Forte AP as I find the ceramics in this dialed in little beast to give superior grind quality/fines that just beat anything else I’ve used to this point. Over the yrs I’ve had various machines and grinders (flat and conical) and so far nothing else has matched this setup for taste and especially texture that I prefer. My preference is what I term insanely restricted extractions as in averaging using 20 grams of coffee depending on fineness/density, ending up with ⅔ of an oz in the demitasse. Restricted to the point of not seeing the 1st drop until upwards of 30 seconds and then push the extraction another 30-45 seconds. Melted honey butter sums up the viscosity and just outstanding taste/smoothness most of the time. Of course not all coffees will excel at this point. I also strongly prefer dry process (natural) over any other process method, mainly Yemen/Brazil offerings and take pretty much every coffee to a full city range.

Having a very capable setup my focus for some time has been on green selection/roast development as I can get exactly what I want in the demitasse by tweaking those variables. That can’t be done if you’re stuck buying roasted coffee regardless of changes made.

We all have varying experience, expectations, etc. and I will honestly say I’m missing out on nothing as I get exactly what I like with my daily fix. Been at this a fair number of years and estimate I’ve consumed upwards of 30K extractions so yeah I definitely know precisely what I want and how to achieve that. I don’t buy into palate improvement, cupping, what have you. Those that think their palate needs ‘training’ needs to figure out what THEY like in taste/aroma, not what others prefer as taste will always be subjective regardless of the spin some wanna put on it. IMBHO cupping is a waste of coffee to begin with unless you’re a commercial roaster with paying customers depending on it. Trying to cup specifically for espresso is a joke as that will never duplicate the changes in coffee/pressure being applied a week or more post roast.

JimmyP To claim improvement is an opinion and not much else. Different isn’t necessarily better.

MWJB Who in their right mind follows someone else’s guidelines to begin with? Been in coffee awhile now and have never given SCAA ‘standards’ the least bit of respect and simply won’t. That sort of thing is like an industry claiming ’this is how it SHOULD be and if not then you’re doing it wrong!'… people need to figure things out to work in their favor and ignore idiotic guidelines.

Blimey, I did not expect this thread to get so intense, but thinking about it, I should have realised, like real petrol heads who can argue… sorry ‘discuss’ the minutia of car’s engines and power trains and what is better than what, those who deep dive into coffee and the machinery and technique for producing it, would be those who have, shall we say the most ‘strident’ opinions.

I on the other hand, who as I have said on multiple occasions, have no idea what I am doing or what I can taste, with what I think is the palate of someone with a permanently blocked up nose, look at it like this…

As a kid I hated sprouts, but as an adult I love them. Since going on my major weight loss, part of which was drastically reducing my intake of biscuits, chocolate, desserts (puddings in our house) in fact all sweet stuff, I now find that on the occasion when I do eat those things which I loved (I could never have one or two biccys with my cuppa, but at least half a packet) I can no longer enjoy as much, simply because I now find the sweetness too overpowering. So, given those two examples, over the years has my palate been trained or just changed with age and lifestyle choice? Now the only thing my palate has not changed with over time, and yes I have tried to ‘encourage’ it for want of a better phrase, is with the taste of Fish or any water born creature. I have tried all sorts, from many different places, and still find the smell and taste quite disgusting. I can never see me being able to ‘train’ my palate to like it, if only because I would probably have to go through putting many pieces of fish in my mouth and retching before I got to that stage.

Furthermore, I know what bitter taste is, I know what sweet taste is, I know what sour taste is. But ask me to identify many of the additional flavour descriptions offered by coffee roasters, and you might as well ask me to tell the difference between a real diamond and cubic zirconium. I know what caramel, chocolate, mandarin, apple, berry etc tastes like too, but have I ever been able to get even a hint of those from coffee… Nope, just a nice tasting brew; and I am happy with that, because that way I will hopefully never be disappointed chasing that rainbow and just enjoy looking at it.

dfk41

You folks have been having fun here.

For the record, I enjoy espresso drinks with and without milk, mainly in medium to dark roasts.

I remember a PHD study from a while ago that may have some relevance to the milk debate.
The subject was actually tea and why/whether black tea or tea with milk in it was better for dunking biscuits.
It concluded that milk in tea was better because the fats in milk actually dissolve the starch components of biscuits.
The fats also spread the flavours across the flavour receptors on your tongue, much like petrol spreading across the surface of water.
It also explained why we have milk on cereal rather than fruit juice.

I appreciate that coffee is a different substance to starchy biscuits but I wonder if there is any correlation and I don’t slavishly dismiss a bit of dairy in drinks.
Starbucks style buckets of milk are a different thing.

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2000/02/03/97177.htm

JimmyP Is that a bit like saying, if you do not agree with everything that I say then you are misguided? Personally, I wonder what you get out of this forum apart from the obvious delight of trolling.

JimmyP Ad hominem remark - I’ve made no assumptions/suppositions about your intent, nor abilities.

If you know something we don’t, don’t be coy, convey your experiences in the spirit of sharing. Ask yourself, if you genuinely have revelations to share, is your attitude winning people over?

Words are the currency of an internet forum, unless you can deliver a cupping via my USB port?

Cupping is a great way to get a snapshot/polaroid pic of one, or especially a group of coffees, in real time comparison - ideal when deciding what green coffee to buy/looking for defects. But, generally, it leads to under-extracted coffee (easily overcome with percolation brewing, or some filtered extractions). It also limits how much beverage you can get from a dose before you start stirring up silt (which can get in the way of tasting by coating the tongue) which I find a little wasteful when buying expensive coffee & unsatisfying compared to drinking a whole, clean, cup of coffee. If you have the equipment to make coffee and the experience to be confident in what you are doing when buying production roasts, you don’t need to cup. I base this assertion on about a thousand brews (a mix of cuppings and unfiltered immersions like FP & Sowden) and over 3.000 percolation & filtered immersions.

You may prefer unfiltered immersions, if so, good for you, but for me I only do them in certain circumstances.

Gone for a walk, as I have managed flu

JimmyP Claims of improvement is overrated as I’ve consumed more espresso than most enthusiasts likely ever will and know exactly what I prefer without feeling the need to ‘train’ anything. You seem to have this mindset that the mind/senses can be forced to stray from what it knows and we are somehow missing out if we don’t buy into that.