Adrianmsmith Its probably better to talk about equipment!!
Isn’t the purpose of using specific equipment to steer the flavour profile?
Where’s your palate at?
I can only laugh at the time/money some spend in their pursuit of the hyped next best thing. Once a decent level of equipment is reached you’re just pissing in the wind trying to get much more than .5% perceived improvement. By far the most important variable is the coffee being used. I have a very capable machine/grinder setup that gives me exactly what I prefer with straight espresso, main focus is on green selection/roast development. That will deliver by far more results in the demitasse than all equipment changes made regardless of price spent.
Also don’t buy into the ‘supertaster’ bull**** as we all have different levels of taste/aroma perception. None is better than the rest, just different. Hilarious when some mention they aren’t on a ‘professional/expert’ level when discussing their findings on coffee, equipment, etc. Only difference between professional and amateur status is the pro gets paid to do it, definitely means nothing in the way of actual skill/knowledge on a given subject.
I would argue it’s about getting “better” coffee based on whichever metric you may wish to use to measure that!
There’s also the functional side of how things work, do they make your life easier or more repeatable. Workflow, ease of use etc not to mention sometimes just wanting something pretty or well made. We might try to tell ourselves that we’re chasing marginal gains but I think a lot of us enjoy the hobby and like to experiment with no specific purpose or expected outcomes.
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JonWoo187 Also don’t buy into the ‘supertaster’ bull***
Yeh, the thing is you will never have the same taste as them no matter what words you use to describe that taste .
And theres no memory function in the human brain to recall an exact taste from yesterday or last week, just perception and or bull 5h1t.
If it were possible to split a shot in to 5 and somehow freeze it in time, i don’t think it would taste the same 5 days running as my, your, our mouth won’t be in exactly the same state 5 days running. And im talking my morning coffee in my kitchen, not some laboratory experiment under laboratory controlled conditions.
As for equipment “upgrades”, i, for one change equipment as much to see how different equipment works and how different theories follow through than to make “better” coffee.
“Better” is very difficult to describe or even define.
After all were not talking black / white, good / bad, were talking slight differences at the level of equipment usually discussed on this forum.
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
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I think the tasting notes on the bag are needed to encourage people to buy it and to know roughly what to expect?
There may well me a lot of poetic license but the flavour descriptors draw me in every time, I’m a sucker for anything exotic sounding even if I haven’t a clue what it tastes like.
Adrianmsmith You’re avoiding the question here buddy. Surely if we’re looking to enjoy the finer points of coffee tasting then milk will cloud the issue? 🤔
Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.
JimmyP Surely if we’re looking to enjoy the finer points of coffee tasting then milk will cloud the issue? 🤔
Why do you think that? There are espresso based drinks and espresso drinks. Each are individual. Obviously if you pick up certain flavours in straight espresso then it is highly unlikely you will detect the same flavours in milk….but that does not somehow make your preference for non milk based drinks any more relevant.
Of course you are right that a person gets to a certain level of kit, then the returns are diminished and it becomes a billy big balls excercise
Unfortunately, for those who do not agree, espresso based milk drinks are enjoyable.
Straight espresso is , putting it politely, not enjoyable .
Maybe i should leave the forums and stick with facebook if the forums need everyone to actually enjoy straight espresso. ☕
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
Adrianmsmith I’m not denying that people enjoy milky coffee drinks. But I also believe that straight espresso can be delicious to anyone. Assuming it’s prepared correctly 🙂👍
Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.
More defensive stuff. I reckon some people here need a cupping session with a good teacher! 😅👍
Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.
Adrianmsmith Both are enjoyable to those that enjoy them. I have, in the past, very much enjoyed coffee with milk. Sadly, this option was taken from me, rather than a conscious decision, or choice. So now, mainly black coffee for me unless a non-dairy option is available (I don’t stock milk at home).
Nevertheless, coffee with/without milk has a taste…surely this can be discussed?
I’ve never heard anyone say coffee with milk is not enoyable. I have heard people express a preference/requirement for coffee without. It’s not necessarily a slur on adding milk. Besides, you make coffee with water, at this point extraction has happened…from now on the addition of milk is an adjustment/dilution of the coffee made.
JimmyP But I also believe that straight espresso can be delicious to anyone. Assuming it’s prepared correctly
I always prepare it correctly and deliciously, by adding it to milk ☕
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
MWJB Sadly, this option was taken from me, rather than a conscious decision, or choice.
I understand this as my wife has relatively recently become dairy intolerant and more recently been told to avoid caffeine, hence my posts about a separate decaf grinder .
She has water added and occasionally a latte with almond milk.
I can drink espresso with water added 1:2 usually as a minimum, i just find a straight shot too short for one thing but too intense also.
Im not saying everyone should be the same.
Similarly i like single malt scotch whisky (straight of course) but do not like rum, but ive nothing against run drinkers 🥰
A tot of irish whisky is great in a latte.
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
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JimmyP Because if you’re going to brew as espresso, or as drip/any other percolation, it needs to work via that method & resulting higher extraction.
You also need to be more specific with the word ‘cupping’, the SCAA heavily formalised a cupping protocol (e.g. time in the roaster, ground colour on the Agtron scale, grind size, brew ratio & steep times, they have made a few, non-critical, changes since), but most people show no evidence of adhering to this and do whatever they feel like ‘in-house’. Even the SCAA standards are a bit of a mish-mash of pre existing works that they shoe-horned into a single recommendation.
Besides, cupping was innovated a hundred years prior to the SCAA’s existence and little in the way of documentation, nor specs remain beyond using 5oz rocks glasses and 7.3g of coffee. It was a diagnostic exercise to eliminate the risk associated with buying lots based purely on a promise and a handshake, it’s a QC for green buyers, not a ‘magic eye’ into production roasts.
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Adrianmsmith Similarly i like single malt scotch whisky (straight of course) but do not like rum, but ive nothing against run drinkers
I like malts, mostly Islay, some with water , some straght, or straight to start, then with water.
I didn’t know I liked rum until my brother gifted me a bottle of Brugal 1888 and a didn’t know what I was drinking.
The best spirit/liqueur in coffee is white Sambuca :-)