• Beans

  • I can’t seem to get rid of unpleasant harshness and dryness

I’m using profitec drive with niche duo, 18g vst basket.

Not with every beans but most of them I’m getting unpleasant harshness, bitterness. I know coffee is bitter but unpleasant. After adjusting grind setting when I start getting some sweetness then there is still that harsh bitter aftertaste.

I’ve been using different roasters, adjusting temperature, ratio by 5 ml and still, again some beans I’m getting great results but with so many of them , and currently red brick I’m just not sure how to get it of that unpleasant taste.

    MuddyOne

    Red Bricks is by Square Miles, right? What’s your typical ratio and shot time of your espresso? I have never used a VST basket. IIRC, @Cuprajake have had VST baskets on his Bianca before.

    Water, Water temperature, grind settings, puck prep can be a contributing factor.

    Please load a video of your shot. I am sure we have a few members who use VST baskets. They may be able to assist you after looking at the video.

        LMSC

        Maybe I’ll try with stock basket, yes red brick is by square mile but I had that with different roasters too. My typical starting point is 1:2 then I adjust once I get grind setting and temperature right. But sometimes nothing seems to be helping 🤷🏻‍♂️

        I can post video of shot in couple days as I have couple of maintenance things to do with my drive .

          Loose the vst,

          Temp will be your enemy

          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

          Make sure machine is hot, 45 minutes at least.

          Set temperature to 94C.

          Leave the flow control alone, fully open.

          I’m assuming you are using a bottomless porta filter. If not, do that, and work on your prep. Make sure the shot is extracted properly and evenly.

          Set the pressure to 9 bar (using the screw under the machine).

            MediumRoastSteam

            So the machine is set at 11 bar right? I think I remember seeing that somewhere before, why do they ship machine like that?

            Why do you suggest to leave control vslvd fully open? Profitec says that normal flow is achieved at 1 And ¼ , I’m asking these questions to have better understanding about your advice.

                MuddyOne - judging by your comments, you need to diagnose what your shots have an unpleasant harshness and dryness. I’m suggesting you go back to basics and start from a common baseline.

                I wouldn’t take the manual as gospel. They also tell you to descale the machine, blackflush and never lubricate the cam.

                    My current “ tactic” is that I pull a shot 1:2 ratio , taste and adjust grind accordingly . Once I find best grind setting then I lock that too and see if adjust ratio helps, if going either way by 5-10ml helps I lock it , if not I get back to 1:2 . After all that is locked I adjust temperature to see if that improves anything.

                    Any advice here then I’m Doing stuff wrong?

                    if its not all beans then perhaps just crap beans?

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      Cuprajake

                      Something I also considered, perhaps my taste buds are sensitive to particular types/profiles . Maybe too citrus /orange / grapefruit profiles are just not working for me 🤷🏻‍♂️

                          You can always try the stock basket, just to compare the flavor profile. The VST baskets flow quite quickly, and you might not like that flavor profile with some beans. Depending upon a few factors, you may have to grind coarser for the stock basket, which can sometimes help avoid harshness.

                          MuddyOne where do I start then ? You said go back to baseline ?

                          As I said, and quoting my previous post:

                          MediumRoastSteam Make sure machine is hot, 45 minutes at least.

                          Set temperature to 94C.

                          Leave the flow control alone, fully open.

                          I’m assuming you are using a bottomless porta filter. If not, do that, and work on your prep. Make sure the shot is extracted properly and evenly.

                          Set the pressure to 9 bar (using the screw under the machine).

                          MuddyOne you say I shouldn’t be backflushing either?
                          Where do I say this?

                          I wrote:

                          MediumRoastSteam I wouldn’t take the manual as gospel. They also tell you to descale the machine, blackflush and never lubricate the cam.

                          Don’t take things out of context. 😊 you can backflush (with chemicals), but you MUST always lube the cam afterwards.

                          This was already discussed here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/3070-profited-drive-lever-weird-noise

                                    MediumRoastSteam

                                    Sorry then , you sounded like you were trying to say that I should get a learning curve from the scratch on how to dial in.

                                    What is your experience with vst baskets, I know they are less forgiving could that be the culprit ? Maybe I’ll swap to ims instead.

                                    And if we are here already, I won’t be posting new thread. I have seen your threads about bad experience with airspace containers, here and on different forum. Well I experience something similar but for some time I thought that the lack of aroma/smell from beans was coming from lack of air in these containers , you push out all air and beans don’t breathe so no aroma. It’s so strange that if you take a handful of beans fresh from packaging and put them lets say in open cup, no cover, then after a week or two I can still smell nice coffee aroma coming from them, and nothing or something like ash from cigarettes from airscape . Really makes me wonder what’s up with them, maybe I’ll stop using them too..

                                        MuddyOne - all good. No, I wasn’t saying anything other than “remove variables, keep it to the known standard and go from there”. I am only saying what I said because I had a Pro-700 in the past. 😊👍 - but back then they were only half as fancy (no flow control, no express warm up). So try my advice, see if it helps. If it doesn’t, then you can go back to exploring alternatives.

                                        As for the airscape - I personally don’t rate them. But that’s my own experience of keeping 500g in there and then using it at a later date. I’m sure others will have different experiences… but I’m not them, so I can only report mine. 😊. For me, I found keeping the beans in a vacuum sealed bag is 100000% better than in an airscape - again, in my experience. For short term usage (one week) I pre-dose my beans into smaller containers which are air tight. I think an air scape is good for that… but then again I bet any sealed jar, or a coffee bag, would do the trick. Just keep it away from sunlight and in a dark, cool place.

                                        As for a VST - I use it daily and I have been doing so since 2012 or thereabouts. I like it. The reason I suggested you use a bottomless portafilter is so that you can at least see if you prep is good and you are not getting channeling - which is important if you are using a VST basket, as they are harder to master than a standard basket. For me, the reason why I switched to VST back in the day was because I was ending up with a lot of fines in the cup. Changing to a VST (maybe due to the smaller holes) solved that.

                                            MuddyOne How long have the beans been rested? Some that I buy might need 3-4 weeks before they lose the negative flavours you describe.

                                            Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.

                                                MuddyOne Those flavours will diminish as the beans age and I find they tend to be replaced with increased sweetness.
                                                Your experience sounds typical of my experience with lighter roasts for espresso.

                                                Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.

                                                  MediumRoastSteam about adjust the pressure valve, so when it reach group it drops down by 1 bar typically so when I test it with blind filter should I adjust to 9 or 10 bars , I know you already said 9 but I want to sure before after half year I realise I had it wrong