I’m using profitec drive with niche duo, 18g vst basket. Not with every beans but most of them I’m getting unpleasant harshness, bitterness. I know coffee is bitter but unpleasant. After adjusting grind setting when I start getting some sweetness then there is still that harsh bitter aftertaste. I’ve been using different roasters, adjusting temperature, ratio by 5 ml and still, again some beans I’m getting great results but with so many of them , and currently red brick I’m just not sure how to get it of that unpleasant taste.

@"MuddyOne"#p74438 Red Bricks is by Square Miles, right? What’s your typical ratio and shot time of your espresso? I have never used a VST basket. IIRC, @"Cuprajake"#144 have had VST baskets on his Bianca before. Water, Water temperature, grind settings, puck prep can be a contributing factor. Please load a video of your shot. I am sure we have a few members who use VST baskets. They may be able to assist you after looking at the video.

@"LMSC"#p74440 Maybe I’ll try with stock basket, yes red brick is by square mile but I had that with different roasters too. My typical starting point is 1:2 then I adjust once I get grind setting and temperature right. But sometimes nothing seems to be helping 🤷🏻♂️ I can post video of shot in couple days as I have couple of maintenance things to do with my drive .

Loose the vst, Temp will be your enemy

Make sure machine is hot, 45 minutes at least. Set temperature to 94C. Leave the flow control alone, fully open. I’m assuming you are using a bottomless porta filter. If not, do that, and work on your prep. Make sure the shot is extracted properly and evenly. Set the pressure to 9 bar (using the screw under the machine).

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p74444 So the machine is set at 11 bar right? I think I remember seeing that somewhere before, why do they ship machine like that? Why do you suggest to leave control vslvd fully open? Profitec says that normal flow is achieved at 1 And 1/4 , I’m asking these questions to have better understanding about your advice.

@"MuddyOne"#p74455 - judging by your comments, you need to diagnose what your shots have an unpleasant harshness and dryness. I’m suggesting you go back to basics and start from a common baseline. I wouldn’t take the manual as gospel. They also tell you to descale the machine, blackflush and never lubricate the cam.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p74458 you say I shouldn’t be backflushing either?

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p74458 where do I start then ? You said go back to baseline ?

My current “ tactic” is that I pull a shot 1:2 ratio , taste and adjust grind accordingly . Once I find best grind setting then I lock that too and see if adjust ratio helps, if going either way by 5-10ml helps I lock it , if not I get back to 1:2 . After all that is locked I adjust temperature to see if that improves anything. Any advice here then I’m Doing stuff wrong?

if its not all beans then perhaps just crap beans?

I can’t seem to get rid of unpleasant harshness and dryness

MuddyOne

LMSC

I always split my bags,I have two airscape 250g…. But I think I will stop using them as the stale smell coming from them is really something odd.

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne Maybe temperature swaying in my room is the issue, Can you elaborate on this advice please?

My understanding is that food, in general, deteriorates faster at higher temperatures. Coffee being no exception.

MuddyOne Assuming I’m buying 1kg bags, I should buy vacuum bags, divide 1kg to four portions( 250g roughly lasts me a week) then take that bag out night before opening and use it .

That’s what I do. If you are going to use it within the month, it might not be worthwhile freezing it. If you seal the bag, then you could keep in the fridge, or somewhere dark and cool, away from the direct heat of a radiator. 👍

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam

I’m keeping my beans in such wardrobe it’s rather cooler there, even when I brew between coffees I keep my bags away from heater, I only hope that keeping the grinder like that by radiator is not damaging in any way, radiator is on now and I can’t feel my duo is any warmer.

When you suggested beans might be stalled , after 3-4 weeks is just alarming if I should change the way I store them, I probably use my 1kg beans within 1,5 month after purchase .

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne - look… I think you are jumping to conclusions. 😊. I don’t live in your house, so I don’t know. All I can see is a video and made a few comments based on what I could see.

I’ll say again…

Buy a smaller bag of Redbrick (because that’s what you have and is not working) and brew within one week from delivery. If it works (read: if you can extract 36g in 30s) then you know what your problem is (read: stale coffee). If nothing changes, then it’s something else. This is all I’m trying to tell you. One step at a time.

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam I’ll get red brick once more then and report back in couple weeks, I will also get updated about machine I’m curious myself.

Cuprajake

MediumRoastSteam

Yep vile just taste of grass

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/getting-accurate-shot-temperature-displays-on-pided-double-boilers-without-thermometer-t54897.html

Have a look at that for your flash boiling, temps too high by the sounds of it, remember its just a number, if you are flash boiling something is wrong, try dropping your temp down to 90 and repeat, keep all other things the same change one variable at a time

Cuprajake

Sorry I was giving an example of how I don’t like a certain bean, which the op may not like a certain bean, not that it’s part of the square mile roast hahah caused a right tangent

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne - unless someone has a better idea, the only time I see a shot taking ages to start and then pouring down half way through is with coffee that’s stale, or coffee that’s very finicky, light roasted. I don’t believe Redbrick is one of them.

I’m assuming you’ve tried the stock basket and the same thing happens?

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam I tried stock today once and surprisingly I got a little bit more sweetness but I will try tomorrow again after adjusting grind setting .

Are there any baskets that are better than stock but not difficult as vst? Is it worth buying ims or something else?

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne So beans are stale?

I’ll answer with what I’ve already said:

MediumRoastSteam MuddyOne - unless someone has a better idea, the only time I see a shot taking ages to start and then pouring down half way through is with coffee that’s stale, or coffee that’s very finicky, light roasted. I don’t believe Redbrick is one of them.

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/3076-i-cant-seem-to-get-rid-of-unpleasant-harshness-and-dryness/51

I’m focusing on results that I can see. Were you able to, dose 18g of coffee, get 36g out in 30 seconds?

Raja123

MuddyOne The stock basket is slightly waisted - they are more forgiving and good to learn with. Always good to explore the limitations of a standard basket and to keep it around for comparisons when you get new beans that are tricky to dial in. Red brick may not be a blend you like. I’ve seen a lot of people mention that it and sweet shop are difficult to dial in and an acquired taste even when they are brewed “correctly”.

Your opening post does state there are some beans you’ve managed to get great shots from. It may be beneficial to share what those were, and to get recommendations from there.

Cuprajake

Ims comp, rounded bottoms are easier than straight wall

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam I need to pull more shots to adjust grind setting,different basket. I will record my next shots and post them here.

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam

So these are the results, duo allows changing settings by half step, that’s what I do. First shot I didn’t record, but it took 22s to pull 38ml

Next shot with video I’m changing only half step, 27s

Third shot again only half step it took 38 s and machine was already choking as you can see.

MuddyOne

Raja123 I’ve been running subscriptions I honestly don’t remember the beans anymore

MediumRoastSteam

Looks the same to me: takes ages to start, and then the flow speeds up. It’s not right. There’s nothing else for me to say here.

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam

So beans are stale? Similar thing happens with other beans, I’ll order tomorrow new red brick , if I’m getting same thing with other beans then I should change the way I store them.

Unless it’s somehow machine fault.

That long time to start may be the culprit why puck gets saturated for too long and result in bitterness?

Cuprajake

Change bean try again

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam sorry, I was just confirming what you said earlier.

I will also order vacuum bags for coffee storage.

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam

Are these the ones people use or do you recommend any other?

https://www.rightpak.co.uk/coffee-pouches-with-valve

Raja123

MediumRoastSteam

Things I’ve noticed this with aside from stale beans:

Some burrs also do this. If the percentage of fines is low, the shot will accelerate quickly as soon as the puck starts to erode.
Puck prep: distribution of fines through the puck affects how they migrate. A shot will run slower initially if all of the fines are at the bottom of the puck. The basket clogs and the flow accelerates as the fines exit. If the fines are higher in the puck. with some coffees, the puck resistance increases over time. Good distribution and a consistent method is key to dialing in and getting repeatable results with a given grinder and burr set.

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