I’m using profitec drive with niche duo, 18g vst basket. Not with every beans but most of them I’m getting unpleasant harshness, bitterness. I know coffee is bitter but unpleasant. After adjusting grind setting when I start getting some sweetness then there is still that harsh bitter aftertaste. I’ve been using different roasters, adjusting temperature, ratio by 5 ml and still, again some beans I’m getting great results but with so many of them , and currently red brick I’m just not sure how to get it of that unpleasant taste.

@"MuddyOne"#p74438 Red Bricks is by Square Miles, right? What’s your typical ratio and shot time of your espresso? I have never used a VST basket. IIRC, @"Cuprajake"#144 have had VST baskets on his Bianca before. Water, Water temperature, grind settings, puck prep can be a contributing factor. Please load a video of your shot. I am sure we have a few members who use VST baskets. They may be able to assist you after looking at the video.

@"LMSC"#p74440 Maybe I’ll try with stock basket, yes red brick is by square mile but I had that with different roasters too. My typical starting point is 1:2 then I adjust once I get grind setting and temperature right. But sometimes nothing seems to be helping 🤷🏻♂️ I can post video of shot in couple days as I have couple of maintenance things to do with my drive .

Loose the vst, Temp will be your enemy

Make sure machine is hot, 45 minutes at least. Set temperature to 94C. Leave the flow control alone, fully open. I’m assuming you are using a bottomless porta filter. If not, do that, and work on your prep. Make sure the shot is extracted properly and evenly. Set the pressure to 9 bar (using the screw under the machine).

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p74444 So the machine is set at 11 bar right? I think I remember seeing that somewhere before, why do they ship machine like that? Why do you suggest to leave control vslvd fully open? Profitec says that normal flow is achieved at 1 And 1/4 , I’m asking these questions to have better understanding about your advice.

@"MuddyOne"#p74455 - judging by your comments, you need to diagnose what your shots have an unpleasant harshness and dryness. I’m suggesting you go back to basics and start from a common baseline. I wouldn’t take the manual as gospel. They also tell you to descale the machine, blackflush and never lubricate the cam.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p74458 you say I shouldn’t be backflushing either?

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p74458 where do I start then ? You said go back to baseline ?

My current “ tactic” is that I pull a shot 1:2 ratio , taste and adjust grind accordingly . Once I find best grind setting then I lock that too and see if adjust ratio helps, if going either way by 5-10ml helps I lock it , if not I get back to 1:2 . After all that is locked I adjust temperature to see if that improves anything. Any advice here then I’m Doing stuff wrong?

if its not all beans then perhaps just crap beans?

I can’t seem to get rid of unpleasant harshness and dryness

MuddyOne

MediumRoastSteam

Are these the ones people use or do you recommend any other?

https://www.rightpak.co.uk/coffee-pouches-with-valve

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne Are these the ones people use or do you recommend any other?

One variable at the time. You don’t even know what the issue is yet. One bag of fresh beans (it doesn’t need to be square mile red brick, but as this is what you are using it makes sense to stick to it) and go from there. You want to achieve first drops between 4 and 7 seconds, total time in 30s. 18g in, 36g out.

Dusk

I personally wouldn’t worry about the coffee storage too much yet, you need to understand what the issue is to begin with. Coffee storage can affect things but I don’t think that dramatically especially if the beans are still relatively new. Fresh beans shouldn’t be going stale within a month.

That said, your issues have all the hallmarks of stale beans but perhaps there is another issue. As others have suggested, you need to look at one variable at a time.

Raja123

MediumRoastSteam

Things I’ve noticed this with aside from stale beans:

Some burrs also do this. If the percentage of fines is low, the shot will accelerate quickly as soon as the puck starts to erode.
Puck prep: distribution of fines through the puck affects how they migrate. A shot will run slower initially if all of the fines are at the bottom of the puck. The basket clogs and the flow accelerates as the fines exit. If the fines are higher in the puck. with some coffees, the puck resistance increases over time. Good distribution and a consistent method is key to dialing in and getting repeatable results with a given grinder and burr set.

MuddyOne

Raja123

Other users of duo could confirm if their experience is similar but I have a feeling the culprit is somewhere else.

LMSC

Raja123 Wouldn’t puck erosion be normal resulting in faster pour during the second half?

Raja123

MuddyOne given you are getting some good shots with certain coffee types, I think so also. It’s a shame you can’t recall the coffee types you do enjoy. Knowing some of that would help identify if there is a trend in your preferences.

What I shared above was just experience, for sake of broadening knowledge about what other factors can contribute to how flow rate accelerates.

Cuprajake

If you can get good shots out of some beans and then these are pants I’m calling beans, that or user error

It’s not the tools at fault

Get something easy to use like Horsham

https://www.horshamcoffeeroaster.co.uk/products/workhorse?variant=2002678723

Traditional taste, easy to use, consistent too.

Did you look at the flash boil?

I have a feeling you’re not listening to what you are being told, which is what happens in threads like this. We go round in circles till you get pissed off with not getting the answer you want.

All the equipment you have is more than capable of making great coffee

May have missed it but what waters in the machine?

Sorry to be blunt but there’s been millions of threads like this.

MuddyOne

Cuprajake I’m listening my friend, I’m awaiting response from the retailer to see what they can say about that overheating and excessive steam, there is only so much I can do at this point, so for now I’m trying to discuss other potential issues. I have been doing my research about flash boiling too.

People come back to this thread and post me further suggestions so I carry conversation, no need to get pissy :)

MuddyOne

Cuprajake the water im using is ashbeck .

Been using my kettle exclusively with this water since march , no smaller sign of limescale.

Raja123

LMSC I was referring to a rapid acceleration after a very slow start. I have high-uniformity burr sets that do that when dialed in for traditional espresso.

The outfalls are larger than most espresso burrs, so these need to be 50 microns or less from burr touch to get into traditional espresso range. Ditting 804 machined burrs do this also.

Adrianmsmith

MuddyOne

See below my totally unscientific method without purchasing devices to fit to your portafilter !!

What i will say after doing this just now, you must be fairly high if you are noticing steam.

See half way through where i get to around 102 degrees. Very little evidence of steam and pressure only around one bar or less.

Starting point with tape was to create flow restriction.

End of video shows checking calibration at 100 degrees in open boiling water.

Befor anyone says this shows the Evo to be reading low, please bear in mind im shifting more volume and flow than on a normal shot. May try later on a genuine shot just to see what im actually brewing at.

@MuddyOne where are you located, your welcome to borrow this meter if it could be any use what so ever.

MuddyOne

Adrianmsmith

Thanks but I think il get myself such device for future it’s handy,I’m getting a lot of steam like from boiling kettle .

LMSC

MuddyOne People come back to this thread and post me further suggestions so I carry conversation, no need to get pissy :)

Giphy - Happy Season 3 GIF by Rick and Morty

Cuprajake

MuddyOne and there we go,

You now get to grace the ever growing list

Giphy - Leaving Clint Eastwood GIF by GritTV

Enjoy your coffee 👍

LMSC

Pl get a bag of Blackcat’s Chocolate Point. It is a nice coffee and easy to dial in as well. 😊

Edit:

I also recommend you keep a log of your coffee — roaster, coffee, temp, grind size, what worked, didn’t.

MuddyOne

LMSC yeah I started keeping a log now . 👍

MuddyOne

LMSC

I already ordered another bag of red brick as per other suggestions, I wonder, only wonder if adjusting off set to negative value would fix the overheating problem. I mean there is a reason why negative off set exists right?

Still I will hit b&q and screwfix tomorrow and see if I can wired thermometer before ordering online.

Adrianmsmith

MuddyOne

Sorry if ive missed it any you already posted but, have you got a video showing your situation, steam etc.

MediumRoastSteam

MuddyOne - for reference on my coffee today. It was from Darkwoods - Crow Tree. Medium dark. Roasted 11 December - I’ve been drinking this over the past week. Seems to be a blend of American coffee (Peru, Bolivia, Colombia and Honduras)

Machine: Lelit Elizabeth (vibe pump, slower ramp up)
Grinder: Niche Duo, setting 7.
Basket: VST 20g
Dose: 19g
Pressure: 10 bar -> 9 bar (noble infusion)

At 8s, starts dripping. Shot finishes at 33s, 38g out.

MuddyOne

Cuprajake I completely don’t understand did I upset you in any way?

Cuprajake

MuddyOne not upset, I don’t care either way, you’re just not listening to what people are saying 👍

There’s a lot of experienced people giving you excellent advice.

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