I saw this picture posted on their Instagram account so presume it is ok to post here. I am not sure what it shows as the hold up was supposed to be cast groups, but from the blurb it does sound promising! I wonder what the eventual price point will be. I must say the renders that found their way out did look enticing! [URL=https://i.imgur.com/VjIJQ2f.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VjIJQ2f.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/ak5AeE1.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ak5AeE1.png[/IMG][/URL]

Last year, the announced expected price was 1000 GBP (probably + VAT).

@"pjw"#p6893 Well, allowing for things to have changed slightly in the pandemic, I would have thought a price around the £1400 to £1500 would be quite acceptable, although of course, the lower the better!

Argos is still being offered at 850 USD. Vectis can and will be more expensive, but probably not that much. 1500 GBP will too close to L Compressa. But we will see.

id say rightly so as the argos needs to be good value as its stand alone and a new company, the pandemic may have priced the vectus out the market, due to where it will sit, you'd have to be a lever nut or ££££ to buy it over something like a bianca

> @"Cuprajake"#p6902 you’d have to be a lever nut This is the target audience :)

> @"Cuprajake"#p6902 the pandemic may have priced the vectus out the market, due to where it will sit, you’d have to be a lever nut or ££££ to buy it over something like a bianca David may not be right, I remember a quoted price for it being £1,000…On HB Reiss was quoted as saying it was/would be more temperature stable than a Cremina and talked about simplicity. Perhaps he is aiming for the potential Cremina market? If he is, I think that's a tough nut to crack. I do agree that you would have to be a lever nut, or really, really want one.

Another nugget of information released by Londinium on this machine: https://londiniumespresso.com/blog/news/3442/vectis It reads: > At last, a small 58mm spring lever group. Direct fill, no pump, dipper fed, steam wand. 20cm wide, 30cm deep That’s roughly the size of the Elizabeth, transposed, slightly smaller. It’s a dipper though. I’d love to know what’s the trick on temp management. Looks interesting though, and certainly something I’ll be eyeing out as my next machine, providing it can be demonstrated it delivers.

> @"dfk41"#p6878 I am not sure what it shows as the hold up was supposed to be cast groups It seems to be the top of the group, where the lever pivots > @"DavecUK"#p6927 I do agree that you would have to be a lever nut, or really, really want one. Aren't these effectively the same thing? (Semi-serious question - given the competition and the possible price point)

I wonder what the price point will be, esp with the current climate

@"Cuprajake"#p23428 The price point is largely irrelevant until they are available Jake. All we have heard to date is promises and broken time tables all laced with the usual sprinklings of fairy dust. The Evo went from an idea we chatted about to production in 10 months, so what makes the little diddly so different. Personally, I would be surprised to see it surface anytime soon with the Argos looming, but what do I know.

Londinium Vectis

Cuprajake

I know there’s no love loss for londinuim for some people,

I’d just leave it there, no need to comment, or speak of them, you’re actually doing them more service giving them band width.

You’re better off shouting about how good the new generation of levers that are far better. Than comparing apples and oranges.

All it does is make it look like you have a point to prove

Giphy - Fire Oops GIF

dfk41

Cuprajake Point taken, but sometimes opportunities are just too good to miss…..at school, in rugby I played Number 8…….when I left school I was too small at 6′2 to be effective so migrated to the front row. The trouble with props is they do not know how to take a step backwards……ever!

Cuprajake

Not only is it tiring, it also paints the forum in a bad light, there’s already been one comment on the londinuim negativity,

I’m fine with us comparing and discussion etc

This is the friendliest forum, with great input and questions genuinely get answered

👍👍👍 let’s keep it that way 👍👍👍

dfk41

Cuprajake Jake, you are fairly new to the Londinium saga……I have been involved with it since 2012. Perhaps I am party to a lot more information than you. Perhaps I am aware of the dirty tricks they have got up to in that time……who knows. I do not think I am being particularly unfair or harsh in what I say. Certainly no one seems to dispute it. We go weeks and months without any Londinium chat, then all of a sudden, some red buses come along. I agree the chatter has been intense of recent, so I will leave it to others for the time being. Everyone knows my feelings on the matter. Nothing wrong with the machines but the new ones are not game changers on the world stage……for me anyway.

DavecUK

why the hell are we talking about a machine that is not yet released (and no release date), no price, not tested or performance, verified. This thread has run since January 2022 and still no machine. Anyone reading this would think they could go and buy a Vectis, even comments about performance are meaningless, no one knows (not even the creator), how it’s going to perform until they test it.

I remember when quite a few members of a certain forum were badmouthing the Vesuvius Evo, a machine that existed, was tested, priced and worked. Some of the comments were truly ridiculous and aimed at potential buyers to put them off. None of them had ever seen, let alone used an Evo. Their behaviour was excessive and appalling. I don’t want to go down that route. Lets keep things factual and useful.

I’m personally bored with this discussion, as it’s not productive and for a machine that doesn’t even exist. When it does, we have a price and someone owns one with the means to properly test it….then lets reopen discussions. Until then, I am closing this thread.

DavecUK

LMSC If they were to adopt Liz and Mara X size, we are essentially downsizing the boilers - like the size of Liz.

With an electrically heated PID controlled group….the brew boiler could be much smaller. The issue is a machines tendency to topple over when equipped with a heavy commercial group and a long lever you have to pull. Unless you put a really weak spring in it.

LMSC

DavecUK With an electrically heated PID controlled group….the brew boiler could be much smaller.

Game on.

DavecUK topple over when equipped with a heavy commercial group and a long lever you have to pull. Unless you put a really weak spring in it.

No weak spring, IMO. Wouldn’t X times the current back weight on the Evo help? The frame is going to have to be thicker with good reinforcements behind the group to address any flexing challenges.

Developing this as a concept, a CAD design and discussions would be in order before POC.

Don’t think it will necessarily be cheaper.

CoyoteOldMan

LMSC No weak spring, IMO. Wouldn’t X times the current back weight on the Evo help?

Well… the compressive force at the spring is dictated by the size of the portafilter and the desired maximum pressure. Assuming a 49 mm portafilter and a 6 bar max pressure (like the Cremina, I think), the spring needs about 115 kg of force.

The layout - from the only Vectis photo (rendering?) I could find - is similar to the Argos, with the boiler and the group set as far back as possible from the front feet. That means in theory the momentum applied to the lever is just ahead of the Centre of Mass (CoM), so its effect will be small and counterbalanced easily, unlike in the Evo that has a very ‘forward’ group. The bigger risk, I think, is ‘sideways toppling’ if the weight is all at the back and the machine is relatively narrow.

dfk41

Am I right in my thinking, that if at this stage the little diddly needs substantial further development costs, which after all, a re-design of the chassis and probable front panel strengthening are examples of, then this will push up both the cost and the timescale for delivery. I guess that in the ensuing delay, it will give the machine the chance for thorough testing so that it at least will be more temperature stable then the Cremina. Olympus must be seriously concerned by the eventual arrival of the Made in Birmingham Vectis

tompoland

dfk41 Olympus must be seriously concerned by the eventual arrival of the Made in Birmingham Vectis

I doubt that Olympia are too concerned. More small levers such as Strietman and Odyssey and Vectis grow the market and each have there different appeal. Pretty hard to beat Olympia quality and durability. And it’s a big market and room for more competitors too.

That said, if Olympia offered better temperature stability, it certainly would help their sales I’m sure.

Cuprajake

CoyoteOldMan 58mm and 9bar spring is what is being used, what I read on Instagram.

DavecUK

Cuprajake 58mm and 9bar spring is what is being used, what I read on Instagram.

They said that about the larger models, but the only independent YouTube vids I’ve seen show around 7.5 bar that drops much lower really quickly. So I treat claims from that camp with a large chunk of salt….

CoyoteOldMan

Cuprajake 58mm and 9bar spring is what is being used

Which would mean more than double the force (237 kg) and significantly more stability risk… counterweight or no counterweight. Sideways momentum is the issue; the force at the lever is not that big - 12-15 kg, but if there are a 35 cm lever and a 10 cm half-base, relative momenta are multiplied by 3.5… on a 15-20 kg machine it doesn’t take much of an ‘off center pull’ to topple it. Just a case of being careful.

LMSC

I don’t want to turn this into a non-Vectis discussion.

But, any future machine should have the 55 mm or the 58 mm as standard with at least 9 bars, if not 10.5/11 like Evo.

It’s also hard to beat the temp stability the 3 PIDs bring.

Cuprajake

Reiss did publish a vid of the lever going to 9bars

but its all on instagram not on youtube so it makes it hard to share,

from the vids that have been shared imo its still a ways off, its good he now has a working model so can troubleshoot and report back, but at this time i feel his xmas/jan shipping is a little optimistic.

LMSC theres something with the evo smaller group/thicker puck/higher pressure that just works, but we cant compare these two machines - totally different market,

Platypus

How would an L1 compare to a Vectis in terms of medium/light roasts . I understand the benefits of the Vectis being a smaller footprint and it being a “dipper”? but in terms of cup quality would you get more from an L1 as you can now pick them up for a similar price to what the Vectis may (or may not) be. If the L1 struggles more with lighter roasts, longer pre infusions would you expect the Vectis to be more capable?

DavecUK

Platypus but in terms of cup quality would you get more from an L1 as you can now pick them up for a similar price to what the Vectis may (or may not) be. If the L1 struggles more with lighter roasts, longer pre infusions would you expect the Vectis to be more capable?

The L1 was originally meant to be good for darker roasts, then lighter roasts as well when they became fashionable….I don’t understand it personally. Perhaps it’s my technical failings? I don’t really understand for the LR24 controls temperature by preinfusion pressure either…I guess I need to brush up more on my basic physics. I have been doing a lot more atomic physics lately (for fun), as it’s my idea of good video watching.

I would expect the Vectis to be equally random, or baffling in terms of temperature stability and control.

Call me old fashioned, but I feel you can’t beat a PID, with temperature control and actively heated PID group. Decoupling brewing and steaming completely, with the ability to micro manage temperatures in all 3. Even if the temperature displayed isn’t exactly what is measures, it’s stable and can reliably be bumped up or down in increments to suit taste. I can’t see a better way of dealing with light roasts, dark roasts and anything that excels at a particular temp. With an Evo it becomes feasible to put a grind size and temperature to each different coffee and switch those parameters on the fly waiting a few minutes for the group to stabilise.

Cuprajake

with the l1 you were limited to how long you pre infused due to thermo syphon stall, i think its was under 20 seconds, but im going back,

the l1 mine was set at 1.2bar boiler which was the infusion pressure, what temp this was at the puck i dont know, i didnt do very well with light stuff on my l1 and mainly pulled risotto

CoyoteOldMan

Cuprajake mainly pulled risotto

Like this one? 😁

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