Hello Guys, Planning to get Lelit Elizabeth and digging through all issues and recommendations. So the question is: if am gonna use bottled water with good quality ( hardness 65/ pH 7/ chloride 45ppm/ calcium 17ppm/ magnesium 6ppm/ tds 115). So do i need a water filter in the machine that am gonna buy? Or it's better not to use it? Does the filter eleminate necessary salts for a good coffee? Water filter that i mean is the lelit tank filter. Thanks Ibrahim

Welcome to the forum…. @"Rob1"#171 is our water expert…but from my perspective. The Lelit filter will reduce scaling . By how much (from new to old) and for how long probable depends on your current water

@"DavecUK"#p10481 Thanks man, appreciate the quick response. The plan is to use bottled water as long it's the best option I have. The point is will the filter reduce the quality of coffee if used (removal of balanced amount of salts from the bottled water)?

@"Ibrahim"#p10482 Some people think it does, others think it doesn't? You can find a good bottled water that won't scale due to composition, and perhaps not use the in tank filter at all.

@"DavecUK"#p10488 Thanks a lot for help dave

Hardness looks a little high, do you know the bicarbonate or alkalinity concentration? Chlorides are above LM recommended spec for boiler safety, which is quite a generous limit imo.

[URL=https://i.imgur.com/PMycURF.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/PMycURF.jpg[/IMG][/URL] @"Rob1"#p10652

@"Rob1"#p10652 here's a photo of that specific water brand. And thanks Rob 😊

You'll need to raise alkalinity to about 40mg/l, maybe more. Worth saying you might get away with less as plenty of people use ashbeck and enoy it. At 40mg/l it'll be slightly scale forming at service boiler temps (e.g 125c) due to the hardness present if the alkalinity comes from bicarbonate sources e.g. sodium bicarb, which is most commonly used to remineralise water by people using RO and DI water. It's far from ideal water for coffee as it is. You don't really need hardness, alkalinity will act as a buffer and reduce perceived acidity. If it is too low you can get sour coffee and the water can be quite aggressive for boilers. You have almost no alkalinity as it is. So in answer to your question the filter won't eliminate necessary salts for good coffee, it'll replace hardness ions of Ca and Mg with Na and leave the negligible bicarbonate unaltered. At brew boiler temps it'll be fine even up to 115c with alkalinity added up to 40mg/l even if you have a 20c offset to get 95c at the group….which you probably won't? The problem would be in the service boiler which you'll need to descale. Dave will know more about the Elizabeth specifically and how prone it is to problems from scaling and whether or not you even can just descale the service boiler as I'm not sure with the way the Elizabeth works. I wouldn't use this water in a 316 or 316l steel boiler though due to high chlorides, which a filter will not remove. Though you could use a filter to remove hardness and add alkalinity yourself before or after filtration. Using a filter is really at odds with using bottled water though.

@"Rob1"#p11090 That's why Dave called you the water expert! Only who works in water can know that much. Thanks a lot man. In this case I'll be looking for another alternative for this brand. Limited choices here! And tap water is a desalinated sea water, am getting residues even with filteration. I'll update you and thanks 👍

Hi, forgive me if this has been answered before, but i am a new member and still finding my way around! I have just purchased a Lelit Elizabeth, and I believe it is possible to 'regenerate' the in line water filter using salt much like a household water softener, is this feasible? My other question is I have a 'drinking water' tap with an 'Anti scale' filter which keeps the kettle pretty scale free. I checked the hardness of the water from this with a test strip, and it came back as hard! I contacted the manufacturer, who said that was normal as the calcium was not removed from the water, but rendered inactive by the filter. Not sure if this would be OK for my machine or not?

Water filter importance when using bottled water

DavecUK

dutchy101 Norfolk? or East Anglia?

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK

dutchy101 Meanwhile in Ruislip

London village 😉

dutchy101

MediumRoastSteam

London borough of Hillingdon I think you’ll find haha

DavecUK

That’s really poor water quality..

dutchy101

DavecUK

Yep it’s shocking really - a snip at £43 per momth

Bagpu55

I do find this water chemistry slightly over my head at times and complex. I use a distiller and basically use 0.1g of bicarb per litre of RO. I want to be as boiler safe as I can be but I likewise dont want to overly sacrifice espresso taste. Am I right just to keep going as I am (will this water be better with lighter, medium, darker beans?), I have food grade epsom salts but have been a bit paranoid to use them or maybe find a midway receipe?

MediumRoastSteam

Bagpu55 - Im on the same boat as you. However, unless you have it side by side, you’ll find very hard to be able to tell the difference. Saying that, I remember when I started using the distiller (I went from Ashbeck to Distilled water) and I immediately noticed that my coffee was very “bright”. And then I remember speaking to Dave about it, and he said that our tastebuds get used to new tastes very easily. And he was right.

However, try this:

Brew a Moka Pot, or Aeropress, or whatever else that’s not espresso with the water you use in your espresso machine;
Use Volvic, or Tesco Ashbeck, or Waitrose Essentials (Lockhills?) (stuff that people put into their machines) and then try something different, like Evian.

It’s a very good way of asserting what difference water makes when brewing.

DavecUK

Ro-Ro The man says 100ml shoots into the grouphead in minute 6 and five seconds!

It’s a lever, that’s how they work. You need around 50-60 ml to make an espresso. If your water is expensive, then you need to consider different machines. I mean that’s why you’re here (not to advertise water I hope)? What machine have you got at the moment.

erkal

Which one is a good bottled water to use in the UK?

Pompeyexile

My question echoes erkals.

Some of us for a multitude of reasons I’m sure only use either tap water or bottled water. So, whilst I know there are many brands out there, which if any of the bottled waters people on here have used would be the lesser of evils for our machines?

In my Sage I have only ever used Waitrose own (Lockhills?) and in the past in my Gaggia have used Tesco’s Ashbeck basically because those were mentioned on the forum.

MWJB

Pompeyexile The two you mention (which are currently the same thing) plus Volvic.

@MediumRoastSteam mentions these brands just 3 posts back.

Waitforme

It’s my understanding that 50/50 Ashbeck and Volvic is about the perfect mix 🤔

Volvic is too high in something to use exclusively.

Happy to be corrected though 🫣

MWJB

Waitforme Ashbeck has increased in alkalinity since that recommendation, no harm in Volvic with it to reduce Volvic’s hardness & alkalinity, but seems an expensive way to go.

Waitforme

Couple of cut and pastes from a coffee forum in a previous life …

erkal

Waitforme Can anyone clarify please, is Ashbeck OK or not?

erkal

So have I understood correctly? If I’m using Ashbeck in my Elizabeth, shall I still continue replacing the tank water filter as well, or is that not necessary anymore?

MWJB

erkal Ashbeck at 46mg/L bicarbonate is fine, check the label.

Dusk

This is Ashbeck that I bought about a week ago

Pompeyexile

I used to use Tesco’s Ashbeck as it was recommended on here and then someone mentioned Waitrose bottled water, so I thought I would give that a go and have been using it ever since. But, as you posted the picture of the Ashbeck minerals, I thought out of interest I would see what the difference was against Waitrose water. The result?…. Not a thing. Every mineral content is exactly the same. So, as I have been having to travel 13 miles to go to Waitrose and only a mile and a quarter to Tesco, I think I will be going back to Ashbeck.

MediumRoastSteam

Pompeyexile - they have changed recently/. They are now exactly the same (this was mentioned last week - can’t remember which thread).

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