Water composition help

Gav86

Evening,

I’ve recently moved across from the coffee forums and wondered if I could tap into the forums knowledge.

I’m thinking of upgrading from my 2007 classic to a possible end game machine. However, as part of my budget verification, could I ask about my water hardness and content. I.e do I need to also invest in a RO machine too. I’m based in sheffield and I do think we are blessed with really great water but is it suitable for use straight into a machine? Screenshot of the report and composition below

Thanks in advance

Gavin

DavecUK

@Rob1is our expert, but your water report looks excellent. I wouldn’t have thought you would get much scale build-up at all. Obviously it won’t be zero scale build up. I would still recommend filtration to remove some of the other stuff such as chlorine, particulates, off tastes. Something like a Britta jug might be good.

Gav86

DavecUK thanks Dave

Rob1

See if you can find a more detailed report from the supplier. You need to know the bicarbonate or alkalinity (expressed “as CaCO3” or not).

Gav86

Rob1 I know when I looked a while ago I could download a report. Let me see if I can find it

Gav86

Rob1 Yorkshire waters website expands to this

The figure in the image is based on the average calcium. The detailed table suggests a lower value of 3.9mg/l which I think calculates to 9.75 CaCO3?

Rob1

That’s the hardness. You need alkalinity.

Gav86

Rob1 thanks! Doing some googling, I can’t seen any details on line regarding alkalinity in my area. I’ll drop YW a line tomorrow to see if they have further details.

Otherwise, I’ve seen on a home brewers forum that I can test myself and use an alkalinity test such as the salifert alkalinity test kit?

LMSC

Gav86 Yeah! A drop kit should do. You can test on 20 ml of
water to improve accuracy.

Meldrew

Gav86 I contacted YW Regarding my water Alkalinity and found them to be very helpful. I have just checked my area again and the YW water report has changed quite a bit.

Gav86

Meldrew thanks for letting me know. Did you call their contact line and ask for details on alkalinity?

I’m sure I ran the report a few years ago and was trying to find it but can’t for the life of me remember where I could have saved it!

Meldrew

Gav86 I contacted them by email. The lady was very helpful. Here are her details hopefully she will not mind you going direct to her.
kim.hoyle@yorkshirewater.co.uk I also asked them about tds as that was not listed, just in case it would be helpful to me. Hope this helps.

Rob1

The water will change substantially, sometimes a few times a year. The water reports will show an average for a period, not what you’re going to get out of your tap every day. Last I checked, mine was between 40-60mg/l alkalinity with about 40-80mg/l hardness….inconsistency like this is one reason, along with a desire to avoid contaminants, people would use RO or some similar treatment and remineralise to a spec. Bottled water is probably no better in terms of consistency either. I’d test on a regular basis if using tap water. Using a drop kit to test a sample will give you the most accurate results.

Meldrew

Rob1 I never realised that the water would alter to such a degree.luckily I took your advise previously on the other forum and bought the api test kit and test frequently. I am still looking at a RO unit as I currently fitted a brita purity c and 3 way tap. Due to lack of space. The water at 20% bypass give me a Kh 27/31Gh 55/58but the ph is 6 heading towards 5. by the colour. There was a blue tinge in the kettle when I was at 30% bypass which concerns me. @ 30% bypass Kh 40/45 Gh 85/90. I might have to get the Ro unit and just make space. Sorry for jumping in on the post.

Gav86

Rob1 thanks, this is also good to know as I was going to put off purchasing a drop test with YW info. Will get purchasing!

I assume a good sign is my kettle which was new 3 years has no sign of scale or residue internally

Rob1

You likely won’t see scale even at higher temps e.g. 125c in a service boiler. The concern really is if alkalinity is too low it won’t be good for the taste and the water could be more corrosive than you’d like.

Meldrew

Rob1 I was hoping the Brita would have solved everything. Is there anything that I can do to raise the ph like mixing tap and filtered water. Or would that be to hit and miss. Is there anything that you could suggest. If not it will have to be the ro unit and use the brita for tea water might stop the kettle scaling to quick.sorry for jumping in on the post

Gav86

Rob1 Hi, so I’ve just done 2 alkalinity drop tests (as I couldn’t believe the first one) and I’m getting a dKH of 0.3 which I think is 0.1071 meq/L or 5.366ppm CaCO3

What would you recommend the alkalinity be, I assume a bit higher than this?

Rob1

Meldrew You can raise pH with bicarbonates and hydroxides e.g sodium bicarbonate. They will also raise the alkalinity. I aim for 40-50 alkalinity and <30 hardenss. With the 30% bypass you’d have to descale the service boiler, which you’ll have to do anyway unless you want to be draining it all the time. I don’t know how the filter works, or what effect it has on pH, or how to explain the blue tinge, so I can’t recommend anything really.

Meldrew

Rob1 Thanks Rob I appreciate your help. I thought that I understood some of this but the more posts I read the more confusing it seems. I have tested the bypass at 0% and at 10% .
0% bypass
GH-22
KH-9
10% bypass
GH-22/26
KH-14/18
20%- bypass
GH-53/58
KH-27/31
30%-bypass
GH-85/90
KH-40/45
The reason for two figures is that the first is when I thought I saw a change in colour during the test and the higher number was a definite strong change in colour

Could I go down to 0% or 10% bypass and just add the Bicarbonate. If so would that elevate descaling at all. Sorry to be asking more questions but hopefully I will finally get it. I am hoping to get a Vesuvius from Paolo so do not want to mess the machine up. Again any suggestions which might be the best route.

Rob1

Meldrew You could, yes. You wouldn’t completely eliminate either descaling or regular flushing (service boiler only). With use even a harness of 22mg/l would rise quite quickly in a service boiler.