Vesuvius Pressure Profiling Machine - General Discussion

tocateclas

DavecUK Yes, it shouldn’t but… HX has been always off. I tried with hx on as well but it’s the same. Just for discard a problem with this, I also changed the HX electro valve (the one on the right side of the machine between the boilers) but the problem seems not to be there. Paolo told me that the only way boilers are connected is through the one way valve.

tocateclas

I’ve just found an email I got from Paolo in 2021. He says the only thing that can cause air in the brew boiler is this or the hx broken but… in this case the steam boiler should be full of water! This is, fortunately, not happening. He though both problems (water returning from brew boiler to water tank and pressure interference in the profile) are caused by the one way valve. In the end I think this piece is too picky and prone to produce this so I’ve just learned to live with it. That does not mean I’m happy with it!

kautivo

tocateclas and why Acs don’t study and modify this part, we are several affected?

tocateclas

JahLaza Sure, pump settings affect! But as I said, what works with service boiler off should work as fine with service boiler on. Just trying to understand what could be happening here, having this issue for many years and with all my homework made, not really confident about solving it. I just keep steam under 115-120º playing with the eco mode (four taps on the touch screen) before pulling the shot and stop worrying the rest of the day as I only use steam for the first coffee in the morning.

kautivo

For me is an important problem because i usually do 4 flatwhite and i find a big diference if i use the steamer with 128-130 degrees or 120-125 and with 125 also happen the problem but less times.

kautivo

John_Yossarian this information isn’t right, @tocateclas machine’s is produced in 2018, my machine in January 2019.

John_Yossarian

kautivo I stand corrected

kautivo

By the moment we haven’t received reply from Sat Acs but they know the problem perfectly because @tocateclas took his machine to expert technicians in Valencia and they did a videocall with Acs team and as @tocateclas say after change the parts the machine continue with the problem…

kautivo

Hi there, the failure is present, nobody reply from Acs team…i tested changing value pwm max accel and kp but software isn’t the problem…

JahLaza

kautivo I tried to help based on the information provided. See my last message above, you didn’t reply?

kautivo

JahLaza sorry the profile used is 8sec 2bar and 40 sec 8 bar, i cut espresso between 25-30sec, i always use the same profile in this case profile 1

I tested with config value 140 pwm max accel and 6.7kp…with the same failure

and i have to repeat again the machine with the configuration default from factory from i bought it in january 2019 worked right, software isn’t the problem, they know the failure 4 owners with the same problem…

Paolo_Cortese

tocateclas

in this two video i suppose that you are using a blind filter right? in the first video at 130C the pf was empty right? in the second video at 120C did you remove the pf or you left full of water?

tocateclas

Paolo_Cortese ciao Paolo, it’s been two years from these videos… Yes, blind filter in both but behaviour is the same with coffee. Not sure about having take the pf out but I think the 120º was recorded first. Anyway… It’s the same with coffee at these two temperature settings. I would film this again but unfortunately my manometer is gone… It broke while making coffee last month.

Paolo_Cortese

tocateclas

the two boilers are indipendent and there is no way that the pressure in the steam boiler can affect the pressure in the brew boiler or it means that there is a hole in the HX in the steam boiler, but if this is the case when you make a shot the water should fill completely the steam boiler and flow out from the safety valve.

about the problem of the water that go back to the tank, surely the one way valve not close as it should for different reasons and if now disappear it means that there is probably some salt in the circuit.

tocateclas

Paolo_Cortese Yes, we talked about the HX two years ago. The steam boiler is not filled completely with water, hx shouldn’t be broken.

I don’t know how but I’m 100% sure steam pressure is affecting the brew circuit. I can not explain from where or how but it’s happening for a long time. Steam boiler off the machine runs smoothly. Steam boiler under pressure, tha machine does not run smoothly. I’m sure is a “physical” thing and no an electric issue because once the coffee profile “breaks” this 2 bar obstacle, it will be fine in the next shot without cooling down the service boiler. A friend lives nearby and I can tell his machine does exactly the same:

Steam boiler hot, above 125-126º. Pull a shot and it stops at two bars, pump struggles and overshooting happens. Clean pf, grind coffee, tamp, pull a second shot (steam boiler at 128º) and it’s like the 120º video. The pressure builds smoothly up to 2,5 or 3 bars, stay here during preinfussion and goes up to the expected pressure, no overshooting.

I know this can sound strange but believe me, this is what is happening for years with these machines.

Paolo_Cortese

for someone that have a buzzing problem during the brewing it means that the solenoid of the 3 way valve it’s noisy, normally the functionality is the same the only issue is the noise and even if it will gone you can make always a coffee the only difference is that the water from the tank go directly to the brew boiler and not pre heated in the hx.

when you make the test, first of all lift the lever and check if the water flow out from the group.

secondly whe you test the pressure, test always with coffee and not with blind filter,

tocateclas

Paolo_Cortese no buzzing in my machine, never.

I always check if water comes from the group, specially at those days when I filmed the videos as water was returning to the deposit frecuently.

I was aware of this pressure behaviour making coffee, of course. Later I use the blind filter and it just replicates the very same thing. No difference using coffee, I wish it just happens with blind filter and works fine making espresso… I think videos from my friend are taken with coffee and not blind filter anyway.

Paolo_Cortese

tocateclas

so please make this test tomorrow from cold, turn on both boilers with steam at 130, than lift the lever witout the pf around 10/15 seconds than put the pf with coffe and try again and let me know if the problem stay there. Thanks

kautivo

tocateclas i confirm the same there isn’t difference if you use the blind filter or the filter with coffee the pressure follow jumping over set profile 8bar in my case!

tocateclas

Paolo_Cortese So… if what you want to discard is water returning from the brew boiler to the water tank, this is not happening now in my machine (who knows tomorrow…). What I did to check this when problem showed up was to put a mark (marker pen) on the water tank at the water level. Next morning, if water level was still at the mark, water flowed normally from the group. If water was above the mark, water takes about 12-15 seconds to flow from the group. It flowed of course when water level reached the mark. How did this problem showed up while making coffee? Pump running fast after lifting the lever and a very big overshooting 15 seconds later!

Paolo_Cortese

kautivo

blind filter with coffee? no you need to use the standard filter. in any case i need to know when you lift the lever without the pf how long the machine takes before that the water flow out. This test should be made starting from cold machine like first shot.

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