Doram - Email me. :-)
Gene Cafe dilemma (to fix, or not to fix? - that is the question)
a month later
Nope to the forum so please consider this an intro as well.
I’m in almost exactly the same situation, but the machine is 2010ish.
Mine has had a dicky time adjustment dial for a few years, it will adjust but jumps back a few times (it must be a dirty wiper in the pot) However my last few roasts have overheated, the temperature reading is normal so it is probably the sensor. I’m also considering a replacement…. Sandbox looks favourite.
So if anybody would like a project or an organ donor let me know. 🙂
Regards AtM
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AndytheMinion However my last few roasts have overheated, the temperature reading is normal so it is probably the sensor.
If your problem is the sensor on the exhaust (left side), you can clean it to see if that helps. Take the glass chamber out, put your finger where the hot air comes out and you can feel the tip of the sensor (see pics below). Mine was completely black and the readings were off. I put a dab of Oven Mate on it, left it for half an hour and wiped it off. It came out shiny like new and the readings returned to normal. Might be worth a try.
P.S. I got a new heater for mine and it’s back roasting as normal. Not bad for a 2007 model.
Here is what the sensor looked before cleaning:
Here is is with some Oven Mate gel:
And this is after wiping - working as it should again:
Doram They do last a very long time…..many machines still running after 15 years…..and not “Triggers Brooms” either.
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Exactly! That’s the original sensor in there. I replaced the heater (twice, the first one was 230w and the second 240w, each of the first two lasted about seven years), but everything else in there is still original (shhh, is the devil lurking this forum?)
I just remembered a problem I had on mine. I can’t remember the error code (think e4) but the machine wouldn’t come up to temp at all. Turned out the element box wasn’t sealed properly and the heat was leaking out into the machine causing it to overheat and shutdown. Went through the process of cleaning the fan and fiddling with the sensor before sealing the box up with high temp sealant and it fixed the issue. That’s the only problem I had in about 5 years of use.
Thank you Doram,
I am inside the machine to clean the fan a couple of times a year and I have a suspicion it is the heater control sensor, it is now a bit lose in the housing and the nut doesn’t do anything to tighten it. Given the age of the hardware and the improvements in controls I am feeling the itch to replace 😊
Regards
AtM
My Gene is the older type so I would be interested in yours for spares if you don’t want it. I understand that the earlier type had different pcb.
Contact me on the email address in my signature if interested.
Certainly :)
I will have another look at what is in the kitty for a replacement and let you know
Regards AtM
AndytheMinion A loose sensor is exactly what I noticed, I ran the machine with the case off and saw there were visible gaps in the heating box (light shining out the back and sides) and sealed it off with rtv.
Hello Rob
The sensor was always a tad loose from new and it has been controlling okay this way for many years so in my case i think something else has changed recently.
My guess of the operation of the temperature control loop is that the right hand sensor (before the beans) is a heater limit control and the left hand is the ‘roast temp’ and what the machine actually controls on. My thoughts were that the gap although not ideal was not much more than a clearance hole around the sensor so there is only a tiny leakage of hot air…. There are no signs of overheating anywhere on the outside of the inlet duct, and the sensor is still in the main flow so ‘looseness’ was probably not the immediate cause
My suspicion was that the limit sensor has started to switch or sense somewhat higher and the beans are seeing a higher range of air temperature on the inlet…. Could be wrong of course.
Logically I would just change the inlet sensor but the call of an upgrade is strong :)
Regards
AtM
AndytheMinion Logically I would just change the inlet sensor but the call of an upgrade is strong :)
What are you looking to improve on? Anything specific you don’t like, or just fancy a change?
I was looking at the Sandbox smart R1 mainly for the profile visibility, it seemed to be about the lowest cost without re-engineering something. I can’t really justify the cost but I do really enjoy the process of roasting so it’s a luxury I’m probably willing to indulge.
I havnt actually hit the buy button yet but the finger is hovering :)
Regards AtM
AndytheMinion I was looking at the Sandbox smart R1 mainly for the profile visibility
I assume you are aware that the batch capacity of the Sandbox is 100g compared to 250-300g on the Gene?
Do you know what improvement you are expecting to get with profiling?
Calling in @MediumRoastSteam , who has had the Sandbox for a while and I think really enjoyed it (but had some reservations), and also had the Gene - twice (and didn’t get on with it very well). Perhaps his experience can help you make a decision?
Over the years I have been happy with the Gene but it has its limitations. The cooling cycle, it felt just wrong to have to crash it to get beans out rapidly or live with a further (variable) development of the beans during cooling.
The heat up cycle and the effect of a warm start on a second batch always created variation
I generally use Kenya Peaberry but have never been able to detect FC so it was always a roast based on total time and an exhaust temperature
I started using pre roasted Kenya Peaberry back in the early 80’s bought from a coffee and tea importer in Brighton…. When I started roasting my dream was to get to the flavours they gave… an almost ‘unlike coffee’ subtlty and complexity. I have never been able to get even close to that and there are countless reasons for that but it leaves me with the feeling that I am missing something basic regardless of how I select time or temperature.
Looking at the control a modern roaster gives just seems to be raising the chances of achieving that step change… or at least it will be a replacement for an old machine that needs some renovation
AndytheMinion I have never been able to get even close to that and there are countless reasons for that but it leaves me with the feeling that I am missing something basic regardless of how I select time or temperature.
I look forwards to hearing your experience with your next roaster, Sandbox or other, and how it compares to the Gene.
Dave, you had yours before it was released onto the EU market. Any idea what changes were made when it was CE marked and did your get modified?
I used to sit on European standards committees so CE is something I really should care about 😊
AndytheMinion Dave, you had yours before it was released onto the EU market. Any idea what changes were made when it was CE marked and did your get modified?
I used to sit on European standards committees so CE is something I really should care about 😊
It was being sold by Hasbean for a few years before he stopped selling it….it was notoriously problematic and had a bad reputation, many units were failing early with a lot of problems, often these were very early heating element failures.
What actually happened to change this is only known by a few….it started back in probably 2006 ish.
About a year later BB got one sent to me and I asked Genesis to make a number of revisions. The main problem was they had 230V elements in them and these got way way too hot…as the roaster was getting overly hot anyway, this was completely unnecessary. The main change was my insistence on a specific 240V element and a change to the other elements to increase their life, at the expense of loosing a little temperature.
As a result they made a 240V element life of 2000 hours (I’d have to check, but I seem to remember 2,000 hours). This means an individual could roast 2 kg per week for 20 years before the heating element would fail. The reduction in temperatures made everything about the Gene more reliable, and heating elements simply stopped failing. A heating element failure should really be a rare occurrence.
The patch had been queered a little in the UK by the Hasbean experience, but as the years passed people realised these were now very reliable units. I don’t know about when CE was achieved, but I am pretty sure they had it when Hasbean were selling them. CE doesn’t mean “chuffin excellent”, it just means it meets EU electrical standards.
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DavecUK About a year later BB got one sent to me and I asked Genesis to make a number of revisions. The main problem was they had 230V elements in them and these got way way too hot…as the roaster was getting overly hot anyway, this was completely unnecessary. The main change was my insistence on a specific 240V element and a change to the other elements to increase their life, at the expense of loosing a little temperature.
As a result they made a 240V element life of 2000 hours (I’d have to check, but I seem to remember 2,000 hours). This means an individual could roast 2 kg per week for 20 years before the heating element would fail. The reduction in temperatures made everything about the Gene more reliable, and heating elements simply stopped failing. A heating element failure should really be a rare occurrence.
DavecUK @, I think AndytheMinion was maybe asking about your Sandbox, not Gene?
Regarding the 2000 hours of life expectancy of the 240V Gene heater, I only have experience with the two heaters I had that failed in my Gene: the first was the original 230V that I got with the machine in 2007, and it lasted 7 years. When it failed in 2014 I replaced it with a 240V heater. That second one failed recently, so also lasted about seven years, similar to the 230V one. I roast about 1kg a month, so by the calculation above it should have lasted 160 years… :)
I assume a lot of things can affect the life expectancy of a heating element and I probably just got unlucky. I now have a new 240V heater so I expect trouble-free roasting with the Gene till 2182. ;-)