I bought these decaf Guatemala Jalapa Community Lot beans for my wife and cannot get a decent espresso to save my life. First off they're huge beans so they take forever to get through that popcorn guard on my Niche. Then the shot gushes through my Lelit Bianca. I know decaf requires a tighter grind but I'm already down to two ticks on the Niche where my regular non-decaf beans are around eight ticks. Even at two ticks the grind doesn't look that fine. Could it be the large size or, perhaps, the CO2 decaffeination process that's used? I roast my own beans and have never come across anything like these before.

Can you post a pic up of the beans? I had a very similar encounter with a very large bean recently - I really struggled with it and wonder if the size of the beans was part of the problem also.

@"thusband"#p18265 It's not a popcorn guard it's a flow control disk. You can always remove it for those beans, bung a plastic lid in the grinder so the popcorning doesn't bug you and see if it grinds those extra large beans better.

@"dutchy101"#p18266 Here's a comparison between the decaf beans on the left and regular beans on the right. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/VgzGjvT.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VgzGjvT.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Few things IMHO! - The decaf beans do not look that large to impact the issue at hand ! I have seen a lot larger beans like from El Salvador requiring a little finer grind for standard coffee. - Coffee from, for an example, Guatemala, Costa Rica, El Salvador are relatively less soluble / difficult to extract. Your grind is perhaps enough, although you might try a tad lower, if possible. If this is not possible, you might consider a little higher dosage. In general, my dosage is 0.5/1.0g lower for decaf. -Certain decaf requires a longer resting time even 3 to 4 weeks. How old are those decaf beans please ? Thx

@"CYP1A2"#p18278 These were roasted on 9 May, about 2 1/2 weeks ago.

Largest bean I've ever seen and I'm unable to dial them in.

thusband

dutchy101 Here’s a comparison between the decaf beans on the left and regular beans on the right.

CYP1A2

thusband

How long are you resting them?

I have often found these huge beans, much like Pacamara need a longer rest than usual.
I was roasting Pacamara and find that for the first 2 weeks it’s just CO2 central!

They are so big and porous that they produce a lot and need time to get rid.

After 2 weeks though they calm down a lot.

thusband

CYP1A2 These were roasted on 9 May, about 2 ½ weeks ago.

dutchy101

Thanks - the Kenyan beans I was struggling with were even bigger than that, but I decided to change my burrs whilst working my way through the bag and I am only finding my feet with dialing in again. I tend to have 3 beans on the go at the same time, but two sets ran out at the same time so I have since replaced with different beans, but back to square 1 with dialing in with the new burrs. I had wondered whether the burrs were horribly aligned but the fact I’m able to get there with the other beans now gives me hope it was just the bean in question that was the problem. It was the same on my old burrs with this particular bean too.

LMSC

Few things IMHO!

The decaf beans do not look that large to impact the issue at hand ! I have seen a lot larger beans like from El Salvador requiring a little finer grind for standard coffee.
Coffee from, for an example, Guatemala, Costa Rica, El Salvador are relatively less soluble / difficult to extract. Your grind is perhaps enough, although you might try a tad lower, if possible. If this is not possible, you might consider a little higher dosage. In general, my dosage is 0.5/1.0g lower for decaf.
-Certain decaf requires a longer resting time even 3 to 4 weeks.

How old are those decaf beans please ?

Thx

thusband

LMSC I have been going with 18g but dropped it to 16 on these beans. At 18g it was way over the top of the portafilter. I could go with even a finer grind and then maybe bump the dose up to 17g.

The roast was 2 ½ weeks ago so maybe another week or so will make a difference.

Thanks.

LMSC

thusband 17g for decaf vs 18g standard works well for us. The 16g is the absolute minimum. See how you get on with 17g before grinding finer. Perhaps, capture a clip and post here. You might also take a look at the puck prep, if it is channelling. Thx

thusband

LMSC Right. One change at a time. No evidence of channelling in the puck. I do the WDT thing and make sure it’s level. I use a naked portafilter and there’s just the one stream but it’s really flowing.

John_Yossarian

Out of curiosity, if I may, don’t beans after the caffeine extraction become brittle that might affect how they are being crushed? Could this eventually affect they way the ground coffee behaves?

I have never had decaf so far and have no experience.

Is the taste similar to the normal beans or is the lack of caffeine makes it less bitter?

LMSC

John_Yossarian Yes! They are relatively fragile than standard beans. They roast differently, with decaf beans darkening faster. That’s why the decaf beans appear darker than the standard beans. It doesn’t alter the taste, though IMO.

The decaf methods used mostly leaves the flavour and taste unaffected except you lose the kick as almost all the caffeine is removed

The Ethyl Acetate / Sugarcane decaf generally may produce a little sweeter cup than the coffee from Swiss Water and CO2.

You are unlikely to regret getting a small bag of sugarcane decaf. It is good with and without milk. If you like coffee with milk, you may not notice a difference. 😊

DavecUK

thusband Sorry, “bung a plastic lid in the grinder”? Do you mean remove the disc?

It would be a pain to have to remove it for her decaf and then reinstall it for my beans but I guess it would at least pinpoint the problem.

once the disc is gone a yoghurt pot lid dropped in the hopper stops things jumping about and bit coming under the Niche lid and onto the counter. I have had huge maragogype beans thorough the flow control disc, so those must be really large.

If it still does it with the disc removed, then those bens must be too large for Mazzer Kony 63mm burrs to deal with. Something that would surprise me.

thusband

DavecUK This morning I dropped the grind setting down to two from three and the dose up to 17g from 16g. The shot was a bit better at around 24 seconds. I’d like to see it >30 seconds but might have to settle for this.

I’m going to give the grinder a good clean today but I doubt that will change anything.

Thanks for the yogurt lid tip. Maybe I’ll give it a try.

LMSC

thusband 24s for 17g coffee is fine as long as you are pulling 1:2 and you like the coffee. You might consider:

The decaf tends to be in the medium-dark category, if not darker. So, try pulling 1:1.5 ratio to 30g max and see if you like the taste.

thusband

LMSC Thanks, I’ll give that a try. We’ll get there sooner or later.

PaulL

Pringles lid is good too. Similar fun with a Colombian maragogype I have, needs an ultra fine grind and takes twice as long to grind, sensitive to basket fill also. The things we do for variety in our coffee bean stocks.