When I'm making my wife a latte I fire up the service boiler, give it 15mins and then get started. Brew boiler will have been on for 30-45mins. Service boiler set to 125deg To start, I draw some water out of the service boiler via the HW tap to heat the mug up. The odd thing I have noticed: the water first drawn is now regularly only on the hot side of warm - I can comfortably stick my finger in it. If I purge the steam wand then there is decent steam. If I draw a couple of cups of water through (c.250ml per cup) and purge the wand then I get 'too hot to stick my finger in' water that gurgles and splutters as it comes out. I'll be honest, I am stumped. Any ideas where to start with a diagnosis?

> @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p18407 To start, I draw some water out of the service boiler via the HW tap to heat the mug up. How much water are you drawing where it's just warm?

@"DavecUK"#p18409 Today it would have been between 400-500ml

> @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p18407 If I purge the steam wand then there is decent steam then the water in the boiler has to be around 126C+, burning finger material. Let’s assume there’s water at room temp inside the pipes. It shouldn’t take 400ml for the water to be extremely hot. When you draw water through the tap, does the water splutter?

If you're getting decent steam, then drawing water….the water would be at least 121C - 125C….so it doesn't seem to make sense that 400ml could be drawn and only be finger warm? It would be good to see a video of you drawing decent steam, then 400ml of water that you can put your finger into? Perhaps we can figure out what's happening?

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p18413 Precisely. And the heating element is at the bottom of the tank right? I'm going to do some proper measurents and a video tomorrow. The more I think about it, the more I think I'm being a spanner.

Or your finger is made of asbestos?

@"dutchy101"#p18418 Evidently not!! I tried today for S&G's and it was HOT 🤣 @"DavecUK"#1 @"MediumRoastSteam"#p18413 I went to do a video today and all behaved as normal. Service boiler was on longer than normal due to a paint eating incident distracting me. I'll monitor and make notes the next time it happens - and get a video if I can.

> @"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p18470 Service boiler was on longer than normal due to a paint eating incident distracting me. First, and probably the last time, I'll read this in a thread in my life lol. It's been emulsional

@"dutchy101"#p18474 All water based as well….

@"dutchy101"#p18474 There's a reason our 2yo is nicknamed the domestic terrorist.

ACS Minima - Odd Service Boiler Behaviour

CoyoteOldMan

PortafilterProcrastinator Before you start dismantling the arm, I’d give a good soak to the tip… the fact that you are getting “explosive power” with a 3-hole tip (that presumably you aren’t using much), but a weak, watery steam with a frequently used 2-hole makes a blockage in the steam arm and boiler sound unlikely.

Rob1

PortafilterProcrastinator pretty much blew the milk out the pitcher (190ml milk in a 350ml pitcher) - very frothy milk (massive bubbles), but doesn’t tell me much about what might be going on.

This is an issue with technique. I use the 3 hole with less milk in the same size jug no problem. The milk is pretty much perfect with little to no effort in about 15 seconds.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Rob1 You are absolutely right.

My milk technique is not good, but the fact the power was there helped me.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Thank you for everyone’s input here.

I soaked the steam tip in pulycaf but the result was the same today.

I am going to descale the service boiler just in case (I use lockhills and flush regularly, not descaled yet and had machine since March).

Then I will try again.

I will try to do some videos too, but trying to get even 10mins peace and quiet is hard at the moment!

DavecUK

PortafilterProcrastinator I soaked the steam tip in pulycaf but the result was the same today.

That often won’t shift the crap, do you have a photo of the tip type it is…I don’t mean a photo of it on the wand, but off the wand.

It’s possible the tip is still blocked.

PortafilterProcrastinator

DavecUK

Difficult to clean when they get dirty, try and shine a torche in there, see if there is loose as well as slightly mobile crap in there.

PortafilterProcrastinator

DavecUK Right, tricky!

I’ll soak it in soda crystals and citric acid too.

Do you know if there other types of steam tip that will fit this wand?

DavecUK

probably, but I would be able to definitely recommend as sometimes there are small differences in threads….but one that the teflon tube fits in, instead of fits in the teflon tube is easier to clean.

I would soak it in something called Puly Milk, other things don’t shift it and you can’t mechanically remove it

Casein glue is effectively made from milk, heat and acidity…sound familiar. I used to own a 11 share (because I helped them restore it) an Olympia 2B a glider from 1938, built for gliding events in the Olympics that never happened because of WW2. It used Casein Glue in it’s construction and was still good back in around 1988. After it was restored, I actually took it for its first flight in decades…..glide angle of a house brick (well I exaggerate it was in reality around 15 -1), which was even worse than a K8 glider which was around 18 -1. Don;y believe Wikipedia for a second about the specs for these gliders…anyway I digress.

my point being use the right product to dissolve milk deposits…..

PortafilterProcrastinator

DavecUK Thank you - invaluable. Agreed on using the right tool for the job.

I’ve not been in a glider for 18 years. I did an ‘experience day’ and then spent a summer as a cadet working to pay for time in the air. Was incredible. Even got to go up in an acrobatic glider - loop the loops and barrel rolls - exhilarating.

I will do a full clean of all parts.

Out of interest, when descaling the steam boiler, is it good or bad to vent some through the steam wand?

@prezes thanks, this is a good idea. I use the silicone ones unfortunately, but I’ll pick up a pack of brushes too.

prezes

You could try to use interdental brushes after soaking. I do it occasionally to make sure the holes are as clear as possible.

Something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192601151433?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Lcs_LJynSfm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=swMQRP8aRz-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

DavecUK

PortafilterProcrastinator Was incredible. Even got to go up in an acrobatic glider - loop the loops and barrel rolls - exhilarating.

I used to have an Aerobatic rating when I was flying…Often went up in an ASK21

DavecUK

PortafilterProcrastinator Out of interest, when descaling the steam boiler, is it good or bad to vent some through the steam wand?

It’s OK, unless you got milk in the tip, because then your making Casein Glue

dutchy101

I use Puly milk to keep my steam wand clean. Give it a go once a monrh when I do the Puly backflush clean.

Out of interst - do you guys just twist the tip off with your fingers? Think I’d need something a little more industrial than my fingers

DavecUK

dutchy101 Out of interst - do you guys just twist the tip off with your fingers? Think I’d need something a little more industrial than my fingers

I always put tips on with my fingers…so I can take em off with my fingers! Never had one fall off into my milk yet!

PortafilterProcrastinator

dutchy101 Do you take the whole steam wand off then and soak it?

I got my tip off with washing up gloves on, they were grippy enough.

You’d probably want a small strap wrench if it is really stuck, but the wand will need to go in a vice probably.

dutchy101

Yeah that’s what I did previously with my Bambino, but had to use grips to get it off in the first place - the Bambino comes with a plastic tool to remove the tip but it broke when trying to get it off and I scratched the tip with the grips when taking it off - they broke through a cloth I had around them.

Really don’t want to do that with the Minima, so might invest in some plastic jawed grips for when I need to get the tip off

MediumRoastSteam

dutchy101 - think @HVL87 managed to get the tip off his Minima, but it required some effort. Can’t remember if there was threadlock glue or not.

HVL87

MediumRoastSteam

My two hole tip was on very tight, so much so I thought threadlocker was used (it wasn’t). I used a lot of electric tape around the tip and pliers instead of a wrench to get it off. Tip was scratched but I had spare. I didn’t end up needing a vice but was considering it beforehand.

@PortafilterProcrastinator Bella Barista have the Minima two hole tip for £5 + del if you want to rule out anything being stuck and nothing else is working.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=Minima%20tip

I know the expobar 2 and 3 hole steam tips also fit. But these are in fact even more powerful than the 3 hole stock Minima tip:

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/en/Expobar-2-Hole-Steam-Tip--Oring---30370185/m-m-4531.aspx

The Izzo Duetto tips fit as well:

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/izzo-duetto-steam-tip-set.html

Interestingly according to the BB website the Izzo Duetto tips are compatible with the Bianca, which would imply the Bianca tips will fit the Minima. The Bianca tips have smaller 1mm holes which I believe will help better control the amount of air you introduce into the milk. They have 2 and 4 hole tips - something I might try:

https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/cartsearch/index.html?q=2200108

dutchy101

PortafilterProcrastinator Do you take the whole steam wand off then and soak it?

No, I’ve got an old plastic bottle 600ml that I put 25ml of Puly milk into with 500ml of cold water. Put the steam wand into the bottle submerging almost up to the bend and then open the tap and close it about 8 times

prezes

What I tend to do as well is on weekly basis when pouring out a cup of water from the steam boiler I submerge the steam arm with with tip in hot water. Leave it standing for few minutes then turn the steam on and off for few seconds so the hot water is drawn in

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