Hi anyone know much about the new HX machine from Profitec, the 400 and how it might compare to a Rocket Appartamento?

@"Rolo"#p18528 Yes, saw one and had some drinks from one when I visited ECM. There is absolutely no comparison to a Rocket Appartamento in build quality and shot quality. The Profitec being better in both respects. You have a switch underneath where you can switch to one of 3 temperatures for espresso, no flushing, little flush better steam, normal flush, maximal steam.

Thank you Dave. I'm also considering the Lelit Mara x v2. Any thoughts on that?

@"Rolo"#p18535 Another excellent machine, with the software changes I asked for after the V1 was launched and I realised I would never use pure HX mode. So an espresso only mode and a better steam boost mode made more sense. uses some slightly cleverer (patented) technology to achieve it's objective. However buy whichever of the two your heart draws you to.

I think my heart draws me to the Profitec, I do like their design and build quality. I'm not so sure about the Lelit in terms of reliability and build

> @"Rolo"#p18540 I think my heart draws me to the Profitec, I do like their design and build quality. This sounds like heart and mind are quite well aligned…

What is preinfusion on/off and how does it relate to the mechanical preinfusion of the e61 group?

> @"Evergreen88"#p18589 What is preinfusion on/off and how does it relate to the mechanical E61 group has small 10 ml ish chamber that opens at 4 bar and fills, almost instantly with a rotary pumped machine and quickly (1 sec ish) with a vibe pump machine. Pausing the pressure rise briefly to max as it fills. Other designs on the machines mentioned, simply start, then stop the pump for a time (usually configurable), before restarting it, without opening the vent valve. I tend to call this a bloom phase rather than preinfusion, as there is no extra pressure being applied, only what remains in the group, if any.

@"DavecUK"#p18592 thanks for the explaination, I wonder if the profitec 400 has a configurable preinfusion/blooming phase but I doubt as it seems to be a simple on/off switch.

@"Evergreen88"#p18599 I don't believe so as it uses an E61 group, with a simple control system. The pump could still be paused by software, but I don't remember it having that ability or any way to program it by the user.

@"Rolo"#p18540 Hello, have you bought Profitec Pro 400? Just for interest, since I have not made a choice between marax and pro 400.

Profitec 400

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan A starter for the thread - particularly the section on “actual quality”: http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/choosing-an-espresso-machine

That article I wrote is around 16 years old now….so parts of it may not be up to date….

Doram

DavecUK That article I wrote is around 16 years old now….so parts of it may not be up to date….

Saw it first time just now and really enjoyed the read. Didn’t notice anything in it that isn’t relevant today. Just wondering if due to 16 years of limitation you will be willing to reveal who is the HX machine manufacturer that you are referring to here:

“However I will say that there is a make of HX (Heat Exchanger machine/s) that I personally believe are a reference machine by which all others can be judged when considering the 3 least important areas to the purchaser, but perhaps the most important to a reviewer….actual quality, ease of maintenance and practicality. The most surprising part, they are not the most expensive machines in their class!”

CoyoteOldMan

Fair enough, but the engineering principles that you talk about haven’t changed - and probably never will!

DavecUK

Doram I genuinely can’t remember for sure..

fwx

[unknown] I have read the threads on Minima. And Dave’s reviews. It is a decent machine at its price.My worry is that there were some threads about the issues of Minima, and direct buying from ACS means I need to fix them my self once I meet such issues unluckily. Since not knowing how many Minimas have been sold, I cannot tell if these issues are common or not. Also interested in whether ACS has fixed those problems for the present version.

Rob1

[unknown] We don’t know what you’ve read so define the problems you’ve seen and you’ll find out if anybody else has heard of them or if they’ve been fixed or not. As far as I’m aware any threads relating to known problems on this forum have addressed the issue.

fwx

Rob1 Sounds great! Thank you Rob. I am trying to contact ACS directly.

Cuprajake

whos unknown? has a user been deleted ?

JahLaza

Cuprajake think it’s a bug it happened to me replying directly to a user on another thread too

DavecUK

[unknown] nope, it’s just the forum being buggy.

SurreyAlan

Wondering if Rolo has received his Profitec 400 and if so has any thoughts to share. The Mara X (along with other Lelit products at BB) has dropped down to 899 which seems a real bargain, why? The Mara X has a lot of features that appeal but I am attracted by the 400.

DavecUK

SurreyAlan The Mara X (along with other Lelit products at BB) has dropped down to 899 which seems a real bargain, why?

It went up, from £899, but perhaps they able to get pricing from Lelit which allowed them to bring the price back down to £899. It’s a great machine as is the Profitec 400. The MaraX is much cleverer than the Proftec, which is switched manually between 3 different boiler temps.

The Mara monitors HX temp and has a specialised coffee mode, very stable temps, weak steaming for small amounts of milk and a steam boost mode….a little less stable temps and a boost after the machine starts making the shot for good steaming. temps can be selected for both modes to give cool, medium and hot espresso.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/03/10/lelit-marax-review-in-progress/

This was the review before they changed the programming to loose HX mode and introduce the other two modes with the tweaks I wanted for steam boost. Gives you the basics though.

I’ve never been sent a Profitec 400 for review, although I saw it all at the ECM factory and had many coffees from one.

Doram

SurreyAlan The Mara X (along with other Lelit products at BB) has dropped down to 899 which seems a real bargain, why? The Mara X has a lot of features that appeal but I am attracted by the 400.

Can’t say anything about the Profitec 400 but I have a Mara X and highly recommend it. I can’t imagine why one would want a standard HX (even with 3 temp sets) over a Mara X. The fact that Mara X is curranty £300 less than the 400 makes it the no brainer choice imo.

Rolo

SurreyAlan

Hi I received my Profitec 400 2 days ago so a little early to tell. On first impressions I am very pleased with it. Top quality machine built well and performs faultlessly so far. The only thing I am going to change is the 2 hole steam tip for a 4 hole one which Im used to. I will post more when I’ve managed to use it more

fwx

DavecUK Hi Dave, I bought the “open box” Marax from BB with 899 pounds yesterday and received it today. Unfortunately, there is a issue with this machine:

when doing the first start-up, I filled the water in the water tank. Then I switched on the machine, the right water light went on, and then got the hydraulic circuit filled with water. Here is the issue– the manual says it will take max of 4 mins for this procedure, and then the left temperature light will start flashing. However, my machine’s left light did not flash and did not even go on after a long wait. The strange thing is that I can lift the group lever completely and let the brew group dispense water. And also found that the group was very hot…it seemed to work somehow. But I am not sure what the problem is with the machine…..

DavecUK

fwx If it was open box, perhaps someone had already run the first start procedure…

If it works as it should now, there is not really a problem.

fwx

DavecUK I see… however the left led is totally dead, and it does not work in fact. which is quite hard to tell if it is ready for brewing or not….

DavecUK

fwx DavecUK I see… however the left led is totally dead, and it does not work in fact. which is quite hard to tell if it is ready for brewing or not….

Have you checked inside to see if the connectors are OK for the left LED, perhaps the entire led is displaced and hanging inside the machine

fwx

DavecUK Not yet, I will check it tomorrow, and see how things going.

fwx

DavecUK Hello Dave, thanks for your advice, the led indeed is displaced as you said and flashed inside when I open the top.

fwx

DavecUK Hi again.. May ask about the size of the hexagon screwdriver? Mine are too large or too small…so that I cannot open the case to put the led into the correct place.

Doram

fwx May ask about the size of the hexagon screwdriver? Mine are too large or too small…so that I cannot open the case to put the led into the correct place.

If you mean the screw at the bottom-middle-back of the machine, it’s a 2.5mm hex. This Precision set from Draper (Stock no.09550) has it, as well as many other bits - I find it really useful.

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