Yeah, like the Just Stop Oil protests and Extinction Rebellion…
Paxman said it best:
“It’s perfectly normal when you’re young that you want to change the world. The older you get, the more you realise what a fools’ errand much of that is and that the thing to do is to manage the best you can to the advantage of as many people as possible."
Apparently according to what the medical sources on the web suggest there are some trace subtances, minerals and vitamins like B12, D3, calcium, iron, iodine, zinc, essential amino acids, and omega 3 that one cannot get entirely from plants or may not get enough from purely plant sources due to very low bioavailabiltiy or being blocked by the activity of phytates for instance. Which leads me to suspect that meat needs to be part of the human diet for that reason but not necessarily to be a major part - all the so called blue zones where more people tend to live to a very old age and still be physically and mentally vigorous seem to subsist mainly on real foods as Graham has mentioned, but mostly real plant foods with comparatively very little meat to supplement it.
The climate thing is just part of the Marxist sourced postmodern and woke agenda or movement that is trying to overthrow the current philosophical and economic and political and cultural landscape in the name of social and environmental ‘justice’ for an allegedly oppressed climste/social or race or gender or sexuality based class and rewrite it to invest power in the hands of a new elite, gaining complicity from the corporate world that is trying to continue lining its pockets while not understanding the nature of the monster that it is feeding and existing under the misapprehension that they control it. They who don’t understand the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it - and the Communist bullet rhat previous generations in the west evaded decades ago has returned in the name of the “progressive” left but this time, has already infilttated and taken over the science and humanities and linguistics faculties of all its universities and brainwashed imost of ts youth into joining its ranks……unlike the culture wars of the 1960s and 60s that was won by democracy defeating communism, the culture in Europe and Liberal America gas become so left leaning that it could be more leftist than the society in China. The culture war in the west has already been won by the progressive left thanks to neglect of what academia and the media have been teaching the young…now most people think its OK to destroy the business and sack people for expressing their freedom of speech or religion. Most people think its OK to use peer pressure and shame abd economic pressure to force people to repeat what u want them to say and that its OK to compel speech from others. There is little or no understanding of the concept of “I may disagree with what u say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” that was the bulwark of true classical Liberal philosophy. It looks bleak for the future of the western civilisation unless this trend can somehow be reversed.
Ernie1 Greggs (for example) hijacked the vegan food movement. The only thing more unhealthy than a GREGGS sausage roll is a VEGAN Greggs sausage roll. I emailed them and asked for the “contents” and it reads like a chemistry set not Real Food!
Ernie1 You are correct. You can be a perfectly healthy vegan/vegetarian so long as you are really focused. (And take supplements as well). Trouble is the processed food industry hijacks the Vegan movement (your females are particularly susceptible to their marketing messages) that its inherently healthier (it isnt) and better for the planet (debatable not not my area of expertise)
Most of not all vegan alternatives and worst processed food than what they replace
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
chlorox Is there an article that usefully combines all the points wirh rhebsupporting evidence behind your argument against keys that I can refer to vis a vis eg that white paper so as to get an idea of the debate?
The evidence is all around you, just need to look, really look.
saturated fat = raised cholestorol. The clear evidence that this might well be bollox.. A big old time beer drinker, 12-15 pints per night, they won’t eat a lot (if anything), plenty of calories from beer. Go to pub, sit at bar, sink loads of beer, go home beat the wife and fall asleep. probably alcoholic.
Most if not all of them will have raised cholesterol, high blood pressure and other problems….but last time I looked, there was no fat at all in beer?
Just like the cholesterol thing with eggs, because eggs contain cholesterol it must raise it = patentlly untrue and disproved.
The recommended diabetic meal plan (fortunately some medics fighting against it) = yeah if you want to stay on drugs and loose limbs, go for it. The NHS seems to like to manage diabetes, not get rid of it (type 2 obv)
I am not as interested in keys’ findings concerning saturated fat and raised blood cholesterol as I am about his dietary recommendations especiallyvia a vis the Mediterranean diet. However with reference to your analogy, there may be an association between heavy drinking and heavier intake of calories including of saturated fats in their diet - see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34611697/#:\~:text=Heavy%20drinkers%20consumed%20more%20total,and%20saturated%20fat%20in%20grams (although it was tested in a hiv positive population)…and if so then the alcoholic beer drinker may not eat much in the pub, but he may be packing away more bacon rashers and steaks at home than teetotaling contemporaries…
My uneducated suspicion is that rather than the nature of the fats being consumed (other than trans fat and oxidised fats which are bad), the real issue is the obesity factor where total caloric intake greatly exceeds one’s actual need leading to the balance being stored as fat in the body and liver - where that issue exists it seems entirely expected to me for blood cholesterol to increase substantially to the degree of such issue and that would be accelerated by genetic factors etc.
Having done some more reading on oils after your mention of seed oils, is it your view that polyunsaturated fat (PUFA) oils are hazardous fo cardiovascular health due to their far higher propensity to oxidise compared to monounsaturated fats and to saturated fats and that the rates of heart attacks etc have been increased by the food industry gravitating to safflower, sunflower, sesame, corn, and soybean oils for cooking oils and for use to make margarine etc.?
chlorox Yes precisely that. I’ve just interviewed Chris Knobbe about his new book on that subject. My podcast Isn’t out yet so here’s an alternative:
chlorox Yes PLUS the seed oils are devoid of crucial micro-nutrients inc the fat soluble vitamins A:D:K and E
Ernie1 We can clearly survive without eating animals.. but thrive is more difficult. We can’t ignore evolution and our evolutionary biology is clear. We’ve designed to eat animals. To be specific: plants don’t contain the same (micro)nutrients and where they do, they are not as readily absorbed. The same is equally true of protein. Plant protein and animal protein are VERY different. My interest is not just surviving (lifespan)- its a long life led in optimal health (healthspan).
chlorox There’s actually a lot of controversy about the Blue Zones. Some of the longevity has been hyped and some of the narrative has been hijacked by vested interests. I’m not saying the whole thing is meaningless- not at all but there’s more to it. Its of equal value to consider the various hunter-gather tribes (yes some still exist) like the INNUIT - incredibly healthy and eat almost exclusively animal fat and blubber - ie a diet of a VERY high % Sat Fat. Same is true of the The Maasai: a pastoralist tribe living in Kenya and Northern Tanzania. Their traditional diet consists almost entirely of milk, meat, and blood. Two thirds of their calories come from fat, and they consume 600 - 2000 mg of cholesterol a day (Wikipedia). The common thread here is ZERO processed food and ZERO seed oils
The soybean oil lobby especially has caused tremendous undeserved damage in the west against the palm oil industry painting palm oil as being dangerous to cardiovascular health due to the fsct that 50 per cent of palm oil is saturated fat. Of course at the same time they push PUFA oils as being heart friendly. This has real world consequences on the economies of various developing countries apart from the public health ramifications. (In fact, the other 40 per cent of palm pil is monounsaturated fat and only 10 per cent is PUFA).
chlorox I disagree. Obesity “comes along for the ride” but its an association NOT a causation. The SAD (Standard American Diet) is 60% comprised of what I call The Trifecta of Evil. Added sugar, processed carbs, seed oils. For a whole variety of reasons these food are delectable, highly calorific, devoid of nutrition, toxic and addictive. The root cause of the metabolic disease is what happens in the cells and the endocrine system. That’s what causes cardiovascular disease, cancer, dementia, type2 diabetes and so-called auto-immune diseases. It also explains why you can be fat but perfectly healthy, or thin and very unhealthy!
DavecUK 100% ! Beer is calorie laden and specifically sugar laden. All my ProLongevity clients get CGMs (Continuous Glucose Monitors) so I can see the sugar spikes in real time. Raised sugar leads to raised insulin which leads to metabolic syndrome/type2 diabetes/fatty liver and general tragic health. And yes the deranged lipids, high BP, terrible sleep.. need I go on! I’m NOT anti-alcohol (a glass or two of red wine is positively healthy) and I love a beer. Its a question of “the dose makes the poison”
One of Zoe Harcombe’s best ever presentations - she was a Veggie for 20 years so speaks from experience as well as knowing the science
Edited because I’ve done it again.
Just gonna bow out and keep my opinions to myself.
