I am in a current dilemma, Been awaiting the Synesso ES1 to make a final decision but according to a local vendor it won't hit near us until December and the price range is in $9-10k (Way beyond the budget). My current setup is a Lelit Bianca V2+ Lagom P100+Niche+Kopi Deva So my choices are either: 1- LA GS3 MP. 2- Any Saturated Group head that is worth it. 3- Safe Lever Machine (is there one?). 4- Just forget about upgrading. The Bianca is so decent I find it hard to find an upgrade. Use is mainly 50% Sunshine Lattes, 50% Underworld dark drinks.

\~ACS Vesuvius or ACE Evo or Decent!

I'd make a list of what you want from it.

Are you upgrading for upgrades' sake, or do you feel your current combo is missing something?

Have a look at https://www.sanremomachines.com/en/products/you/ (Edited: previously suggested that the Nurri Leva may have been a "safe" lever but that is not the case.)

What's life without a little danger ![Giphy - Steve Irwin Danger GIF](https://media0.giphy.com/media/LpkLWXTp0v0qy70xPp/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869fwiddj5crsyh7hfqnaejlaerqyfs0qsghuc6stdr9&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

> @"Otaibimn"#p24681 4- Just forget about upgrading. ![Giphy - Schitts Creek Comedy GIF by CBC](https://media0.giphy.com/media/jQDbxgBuGcsbkd1C47/giphy.gif?cid=bb77869fkiv0o5i2s3a4xcwe6d2rmtcahczb0b8ggazagyh0&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

I often wonder, if you could assemble a veritable line of coffee machines on a bench, and then someone put earphones and a blindfold and brought you random coffee one after the other.........would you actually learn anything! When I used to practice Transcendental Meditation, following a group session we were all asked to share our experiences in a couple of short sentences........my own contribution was 'TM is like having an itch, but it does not really matter......the itch that does not itch'.

@"tompoland"#p24686 I'm not sure the Nurri is 'safe'. It's safe from portafilter sneeze (as long as one remembers to release the pressure with the paddle), but the lever itself is free to move. Not that avoidance of portafilter sneeze is anything to - ahem - sniff about, as I can attest even from this morning, when I changed beans and choked the machine… As far as I know, only the LM Leva-X/Leva-S and (some?) Kees van der Westen lever machines have 'safe' levers with a clutch preventing unintended release, but they are priced beyond even @"Otaibimn"#p24681 's very generous budget (at least new). This said, in 2 months of lever machine use (and a couple of slips…), the victims have been 2 coffee cups and a healthy respect for the 250 kg of force the springs exert once fully compressed. However, I think the stories of broken jaws have to refer to coffee-shop environments where multiple levers are 'on the move' and people are in a rush; I really can't see that sort of accident happening in a home.

@"Cuprajake"#p24687 I miss this man 😢

@"Otaibimn"#p24681 if you just want to satisfy a buying urge, may as well put a punt on the odyssey Argos. Otherwise GS3 seems nice. Where I am you can sometimes see them floating on the used market for roughly 20% more than a Decent

Upgraditius hits again!

dfk41

hthec I was underwhelmed with the GS3 I owned…….even more so when I realised that all it did was make coffee!

Otaibimn

Cuprajake Not when you have curious little girls…. Angels with satanic horns.

dfk41 The itch is too strong to resist. Especially when seeing one in action.

LMSC Hey! I got the green light from the miss! I ain’t gonna get another one again 😅

CoyoteOldMan I go with a zero risk way… especially when permanent damage is involved.

hthec Untested and too many unknown variables.

dfk41 Damn good coffee I might add!

DavecUK My only gripe with EVO is that two friends of mine have it. Both concured that it is fantastic for pure espressos. Not so much lattes where you need the coffee bitterness at the end of the extraction to provide some body to the cup.

My Lagom is basically blocked from being used for lattes at the moment for that reason alone.

MediumRoastSteam Now that’s a phrase to add 🤣

DavecUK

tompoland Nurri Leva is not a safe lever….

Cuprajake

i think any lever has an element to them that if not used proper can be dangerous, you can burn your hand on a pavoni for instance,

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake if not used proper can be dangerous, you can burn your hand on a pavoni for instance,

And let me tell you from experience, you only experience “Il bacio dei Pavoni” - The kiss of the Peacocks - once.🤣

DavecUK

Otaibimn If you want temperature accuracy and stability and a complete change, the ACS Vesuvius Evo Lever might well be worth a try. Much less expensive than the machines you have been considering. The safe lever machines are very expensive indeed. I can’t remember where you are but this was a bargain.

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/713-acs-vesuvuis-evo-leva-for-sale

Or get one new to your spec…I thought this was a beauty, especially the handles. https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/10-acs-vesuvius-evo-leva/1584

The shots from that temperature controlled group and twin boiler system are truly astounding….I have 2 Biancas and when I get my old Alpha working again, it will go straight back on the counter….over any other machine I have!

Cuprajake

Otaibimn My only gripe with EVO is that two friends of mine have it. Both concured that it is fantastic for pure espressos. Not so much lattes where you need the coffee bitterness at the end of the extraction to provide some body to the cup.

depends on your beans for me, with the niche i can get quite dark for the mrs milk drinks

DavecUK

Otaibimn DavecUK My only gripe with EVO is that two friends of mine have it. Both concured that it is fantastic for pure espressos. Not so much lattes where you need the coffee bitterness at the end of the extraction to provide some body to the cup.

Simply bump up the group temp a couple of degrees for the lattes, it will take less than a minute to reach/stabilise at the new temp. This will give you the bitter edge you’re looking for.

LMSC

Otaibimn Not so much lattes where you need the coffee bitterness at the end of the extraction to provide some body to the cup.

Dave already advised you what you need to do. Jake also makes lattes daily. I make every day for my wife - well, mostly flat white.

It’s great as such >= medium. Other beans, like all other machines, it is purely beans and flavour dependent. Flavours like lime, citrus, grapes, grapefruits, rhubarb, pears and even oranges are unlikely cut with very well with milk as lattes (cortado and flat white are fine), while some highly acidic beans like Kenyans will make great milk-based drinks. These are valid not just for Evo but for all machines, in general.

I prefer flat whites than lattes as the former gives a stronger cup.

Otaibimn green light from the miss

Awesome! Let’s know. 👍

CoyoteOldMan

Otaibimn I go with a zero risk way

An E61 like in your Bianca gets quite hot, and steam or water from any machine will be hot. “zero risk” doesn’t really exist.

Otaibimn

CoyoteOldMan

Slightly Burned Hand Vs Broken jaw :>

LMSC

Otaibimn Sorry, could you define zero risk please? I may have missed; do we really need to worry about safe lever, zero risk, broken jaw and permanent damage on a home environment?. 😂

Edit:

If you think the children will accidentally release the lever, this is a serious health and safety risk. Then any coffee machine is a no go. 😊

CoyoteOldMan

Otaibimn How many broken jaws due to lever machines have you actually seen or have reliable accounts of? Me - zero. And I mean zero. People with burns due to coffee/coffee-making - thousands. Some serious.

Norvin

I have had the Evo over a year now and the only ‘near miss’ was in the early days, the lever slipped out of my hand because I was pulling it while my hand was wet. Lesson learned.

Eiffel

Norvin
Same here (and this is my first lever)… and this was when flushing the machine. I have yet to spill coffee or damage any of my cups 🤞

Knluk

Norvin smart not to get the finest finished wood handle. The other version of the Leva handle can reduce the risk of slippage.

LMSC

https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/product/leva-x-1-group-reservation/

Otaibimn

LMSC Oh hell no.

Ernie1 This is the question I am asking at the moment.

I am currently enjoying some nice Colombian Honey Process Inza coffee and I am extremely satisfied.

Ernie1

Hopefully won’t mind me asking but @Cuprajake might be well placed to answer this-

If you were back with your Bianca, would you buy the Lever again?

I sometimes look for reasons to get a GS3, or even a Faema E61 just because I like them as ‘iconic’ machines. It’s just impossible to justify as I’m still going to pull the odd bad shot, and would the best shot on a GS3 be £6000 better than the best on a Bianca? If it is there’s no way my palate would taste it.

Luckily I have another expensive hobby in motorbikes and watches so whenever I get the itch to spend, it usually goes on one of those!

LMSC

Ernie1 would the best shot on a GS3 be £6000 better than the best on a Bianca?

I always wondered about two things:

would an expert be able to identify which one of the two best shots came from GS3?
diminishing returns!

DavecUK

LMSC I always wondered about two things:

would an expert be able to identify which one of the two best shots came from GS3?
diminishing returns!

No, probably not.

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