Amberale I don’t believe that the Vostok has “Pressure Profiles” or “automatic shots”.
My understanding is that the shot is run as normal using the spring but is ended by a solenoid opening a valve to release the pressure totally when either a time or a pressure is reached depending on whether either choice is selected.

Exactly right.

Amberale I think it has come from the experience with the EVO (and possibly commercial Vostoks) that stopping a shot a a certain pressure will give a consistent output ratio.

It came about from my direct experience with the Alpha Evo (now deceased). Pressure is a very accurate indicater of weight of espresso extracted and works for slightly varying grind levels (diff coffees), tamping pressures and puck prep.

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        DavecUK Pressure is a very accurate indicater of weight of espresso extracted and works for slightly varying grind levels (diff coffees), tamping pressures and puck prep.

        Dave, expanding on this…. Would you be able to elaborate more, and how a spring lever extraction would differ from a programmed machine such as the Vesuvius in terms of flavour in the cup and the mechanics in terms of the dynamics behind and through the puck? For the sake of the argument, let’s assume the machines in question had the same group size and same coffee baskets, and that the programmed machine would be configured to a “lever” profile.

            MediumRoastSteam Dave, expanding on this…. Would you be able to elaborate more, and how a spring lever extraction would differ from a programmed machine such as the Vesuvius in terms of flavour in the cup

            I can’t, it just does….I don’t know why for sure. For the LSM group type, these might be factors…or they might not. I know what I think, but I can’t prove it except in the resulting shot and taste.

            • Is it the depth of the 53.5 mm puck..La Spaziale and Dalla Corte also favoured that size because they believed it produced a better shot for this reason.
            • Is it the high peak pressure followed by the gradual decline
            • Or the sheer mass of the group adding thermal stability
            • Does the ability to precisely alter temperature, and indeed control it have an effect
            • Or perhaps the way the LSM clone group preinfuses (bottom up rather than top down fill)

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              8 days later

              Hey guys

              Once some one gets a Vostok can we have a video of the vent feature for a choked lever please

              I’ve been curious more as a safety aspect and I’ve yet to see a choked lever shot be de pressurised.

              I kinda think I know what will happen, but a picture or in this case a video says a 1000 words.

              Cheers guys

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                I’m not buying one to find out 🤣

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                I am about to buy a Vostok and am as curious as you are about the vent function. I can upload a video as soon as the machine arrives, but I’m afraid it won’t be until March.

                If DavecUK could upload a video before then, of course that would be even better :P Thanks in advance!

                  MediumRoastSteam it might be because the pressure decline is caused by the water leaving the group (through the puck) and so everytime at pressure x you will have volume y of water that went through the puck (assuming preinfussion is always the same)

                  I actually don’t know how pump machines do automatic shots. If they are doing it purely timer based it would be inaccurate, otherwise if they are doing it by measuring the flow of the pump minus the OPV volume that would give the same precision as pressure based in spring levers.

                    I’m a little irritated by Lance Hendrick’s casual mention in his review that the Vostok operates at a peak pressure of around 9.5 bar. Given that the machine has two springs, this would be a bit surprising, especially as I was told otherwise by someone from ACS, but I must have simply misunderstood Lance’s review. After all, it also depends on the density of the puck, as the machine does not always reach maximum pressure.
                    I also read in another thread that the Vesuvius Evo Leva operates at 11 bar. So I assume the Vostok uses the same springs.

                    This was just something that puzzled me because I started to wonder why the spring pressure of home lever machines is usually lower than that of commercial lever machines, or am I misinformed?

                    As far as I know, a commercial LSM group uses a spring with a max pressure of 11 bar, so the question that comes to mind is why do home lever machines operate at a maximum of around 9 bar?

                    It probably has nothing to do with that, but could it be because traditional commercial lever machines were designed for much darker roasts? There was no market for light roasts back then. Or am I completely off the track here with my wild conspiracy theories?

                    I could not test this with my hand lever machine as it does not have a pressure gauge. However, my experiences with pressure profiling show no better results with a higher pressure for dark roasts, but that does not mean that this is not the case for actual lever machines. As we all know, the world of lever machines is a mystery in many aspects.

                      Nah he just made a mistake

                      I questioned him on this and he said the machine said 9 bar.

                      But it’s the same group and I usually hit 10.5 bar

                      He also pulled his cup away alot lower in the pressure range than most of us do on the forum.

                      I wouldn’t worry at all

                      See the vid the gauge is over 10bar

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                        I believe he didn’t have much time to play with the machine. However, I think the 9 bar was using probably the auto feature. The normal mode should get you 10.5-11 bars!

                        @DavecUK What is the boiler capacity of Vostok please? Do we have the full features list somewhere ? Thx

                          I thought it was the same boilers as the Evo?

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                            DavecUK

                            I’m pretty sure that you showed the auto shot control using pressure to finish.
                            I think Jake wants to see it release pressure with a choked puck at peak pressure.

                              Tiramigiu Lance Hendrick’s casual mention in his review that the Vostok operates at a peak pressure of around 9.5 bar. Given that the machine has two springs, this would be a bit surprising, especially as I was told otherwise by someone from ACS, but I must have simply misunderstood Lance’s review. After all, it also depends on the density of the puck, as the machine does not always reach maximum pressure.

                              It peaks at 10.5 ish…I know because I did a video which shows it at the Trieste exhibition last October 22…someone has already linked to it. I wouldn’t call LH video a review, more a brief intro to a few of the features

                              Tiramigiu Thanks for the clarification!

                              I am asking for a dimension to be changed. The 467mm height of the rear part of the case, I would like to see it 447mm

                              Tiramigiu As far as I know, a commercial LSM group uses a spring with a max pressure of 11 bar, so the question that comes to mind is why do home lever machines operate at a maximum of around 9 bar?

                              The home machines are smaller and generally get a bit “tipsy” with the commercial springs in them. At this time I usually put up my favourite video .gif of a tipsy lever…but I don’t want to anger what would become a frenzied mob. 😁

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                                      DavecUK

                                      Can you clarify how you want the height changed Dave?
                                      Is it by altering the feet/base or just the terminology as the top slopes down from nearly mid-machine?

                                      Go on show us your GIFFy 😄

                                          Amberale I basically want the front brackets a bit smaller, but i don’t know if 2cm can be lost there and the bending machine still create them. Then of course 2cm off the height of the rear feet.

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                                              DavecUK

                                              Excellent plan.
                                              Stylistically, the space under the drip tray is the only thing that looks a bit unfinished.
                                              I know the deeper drip tray will address this but dropping it all 20 mm works as well.

                                              I am in the middle of replacing the 490mm deep bench top on my coffee sideboard with a 710mm one so it should fit.
                                              Building a new steel 650mm deep base on wheels is jut as important to maintain stability.

                                                DavecUK Thanks for the clarification! I can understand it, but not entirely. Pressure obviously plays a crucial role during extraction. So is it really something that can be compromised on without sacrificing too much in terms of quality?

                                                This is just out of interest, as I assume that 10.5 or 11 bar would not make much difference on the Vostok and the additional cost and effort probably wouldn’t be worth it.

                                                I’d love to see the GIF however 😅