I had bought a Gaggia Classic (2012 or 2014 model I think it is), with all the necessary mods already in place (PID, OPV fitted, Rancilio steam wand). For a while I used it regularly but then I put it away and used my bean to cup exclusively. Recently went to my cousin's house who has a Sage Barista Express and he made me coffee (Union Roasted Christmas blend, Baked Apple, Cinnamon, Cocoa notes). It tasted miles better than what the bean to cup produces, not a surprise. What was a complete surprise though was it looked like it would be awful tasting. Shot ran really quickly, water, and he had absolutely no clue about ratios. That gave me an incentive to dig my Gaggia out again. Recently bought the cheap single dose SPTK 38 grinder based on Dave's review of it, to use with the Gaggia. I'm pulling decent ratio (1-2.5), in about 30 seconds. Liquid pours after about 7 seconds. But it tastes meh. I've tried various different adjustments, sometimes I get a nice result, sometimes not. What I have noticed consistently is that the temperature on the PID display drops mid shot. But this drop varies from shot to shot. Sometimes 1-2 degrees, sometimes 3 degrees, sometimes the drop occurs slowly, sometimes quickly. When I bought this Gaggia, it was always only as a stepping stone to a better espresso machine. Recently I've been eyeing up the Lelit Mara X2. Would I get better results with the Lelit?

Not a Gaggia user so others may chip in but I don't think a 2-3c decrease in pid temp is particularly out of the ordinary. I'd also guess it's not what's at fault here but either way more info would be helpful. It would be helpful to hear what about it tastes bad and what type of beans you're using. And what starting temp are your brewing at?

The beans are Union Roasted, Christmas blend, which they state as medium roast - certainly doesn't look dark. I started with 96degC (I saw this drop to 93 at one point) but then adjust it to 95 (with the hope it will settle between 93-94). Initially I was aiming for 1:2 ration in 25-30sec but then I updosed, grind slightly coarser, and increased the dose (that's what one of the espresso help guides I read indicated based on what I was tasting). What I was tasting was no sweetness at all, struggling to taste the notes indicated, and it tasted under extracted (sour). I first tried grinding finer (only a notch to start with) but then that made it taste more bitter, I never got the sweetness. That when I decided to get help from online guides (regarding how to adjust based on what you are tasting). My very first started was 14g in, aiming for 28-30g out, in 30 seconds. What I have no eventually ended up with is 15.5g in, 43g out, 23 seconds and that has been the closest to tasting with some sweetness and closer resemblance to the indicated notes. I'm going to keep the 15.5g in, go half a notch finer for my next one and aim for 45g out, maybe take it to 26ish seconds I think. I'm not sure if that was at all helpful 🙅🏻♂️

@"DrForinor"#p33271 the temp registered on the pid doesn’t always reflect what’s measured at the portafilter for small single boilers. In the manual of my Ito mod there is some scace data on a Rancilio Silvia showing that with no heating during the shot the temperature measured by the pid dropped from 94-88°C, but the scace (I.e. puck temp) rose to 87°C over the first 11s and was then flat for the rest of the shot (if you’re interested then download the “leva! 2.0 for Ito” from http://projectcaffe.bplaced.net/downloads.html, and look in the firmware manual page 57). On the flip side if you can’t disable heating during a shot and the PID is kicking the element on to compensate for the incoming cold water, then you can end up with the water being too hot, especially as the water outlet pipe is usually quite close to the element. The piping also heats up so there is less cooling. The Ito manual stated they measured a 3°C increase in temperature from this effect. In summary, if you can’t disable heating during the shot you could try changing the set point and seeing if that helps. Or perhaps the beans are just meh.

@"DrForinor"#p33276 do the beans have a roast date? If they’re a few months old that won’t help either

The roast date on the bag is 1st Nov 2022

@"DrForinor"#p33280 on the older end then, but not terrible. I usually try to drink all my coffee in the 2 - 6 week post roast window

@"hornbyben"#p33281 What do you do with beans that might be older than 6 weeks? This was the reason for me updosing, and increasing yield (it's what my search revealed for older beans), and it certainly improved it for me.

@"DrForinor"#p33282 accept poorer flavour if I end up in that position, and try to buy fresher or drink quicker next time. If I know I definitely won’t be able to (like decaf that I keep in for guests) then I freeze them. Most decent roasters will send you coffee less than a week from roast (assuming Royal Mail don’t take forever to actually get it to you).

I used to set my PID to 102 degrees to allow for the tail off in temp. You could try that to see if the flavour improves or not.

@"Jollybean"#p33293 Thank you, I'll try that. Given the drawbacks that still exist in a Gaggia with a PID, (and keeping in mind that I always knew the Gaggia would only be a stepping stone), would the Lelit Mara X2 be a worthy upgrade? I don't steam much milk. Usually make my espresso, add water from the kettle as much as I need them add milk straight from the fridge. But I want a machine that will give me consistency without me worrying about it or having to make unnecessary adjustments for the lack of consistency.

Gaggia woes

dndrich

DrForinor Nope. Should be great!

DavecUK

DrForinor Looks great, enjoy it, lots of fun ahead.

DrForinor

DavecUK Thank you.

And I must thank you for your detailed info on the machine in your review. I’ll be studying it this weekend and setting it up according to your recommendations.

DrForinor

The IMS basket I had purchased myself on the left, vs the supplied one with the Lelit Elizabeth on the right.

DrForinor

Fits in the space well enough I would say.

@dndrich That tip with the felt pads on the feet, brilliant. Thank you!

dndrich

DrForinor Yay!! Let the adventure begin. Have fun. Great machine.

Cuprajake

DrForinor what kit does the Elizabeth come with

DavecUK

DrForinor Enjoy some great coffee today, help you stay fresh for new year!

DrForinor

Cuprajake Their double spouted slide portafilter, single and double baskets, blind basket, water filter, 3 sachets of puly caff, some detergent for steam wand, plastic coffee scoop and really rubbish plastic “thing” that is supposed to represent a tamper 😅

dndrich

I would start with the stock basket initially. I am very happy with it myself, and have not changed it, nor do I see a reason to change it. I do have a bottomless portafilter for the fun of it. It is also easier to keep clean. But the stock portafilter is great. Huge hunk of metal that holds heat. Glad you installed the felt pads. That was a DavecUK suggestion! Super good thing.

DrForinor

dndrich Why do you suggest the stock over the IMS one pictured next to it in the post above?

dndrich

DrForinor I thought that competition baskets are perhaps more demanding. I have been very happy with the stock basket and saw no reason to change it. But, enjoy!

Cuprajake

Ims are ok vst are hard to use.

Ps is that not the single basket

DrForinor

Cuprajake That’s their double, marked 14-18g on it.

DrForinor

So I just made coffee, roasted on 2nd Dec.

17.1g in, 42.1g out, 3sec pre-infusion, total of 29 second. Coffee tasted nice, had lovely sweetness, but it tasted very generic as opposed to the notes stated. They say it’s medium roast, I used 95C.

Suggestions as to how to improve, please?

CoyoteOldMan

DrForinor “Improve” I don’t know, but I would be tempted to play with the temperature. See if a shot at 93 brings out anything other than ‘just acidity’… and if so, you may go further down. If it only goes acidic, then try going up by a degree (to 96)?

(Also, I would not expect coffee that is a month after roasting to have a lot of delicate notes… no matter how you brew it or how well it has been kept)

dndrich

DrForinor You just got the machine and are learning. Excellent result right out of the gate!

DrForinor

CoyoteOldMan Yes fair point, thanks 🙂

DrForinor

dndrich The IMS basket I showed in the picture above is what I was using with the Gaggia. It wasn’t advertised as a competition basket (though I understand the spec is the same as a competition basket).

Comparing my IMS with the Lelit supplied one, I think I prefer the IMS - just on naked eye observation it seems the holes are more uniform and tighter.

I made my first coffee tonight with it, using a coffee I’ve not yet used in either the Elizabeth or my grinder, in the 17g IMS basket and I got a sweet coffee. Suppose can’t complain too much with that result.

Tamping on the portafilter though I’m finding I’m having to steady the PF from rocking, which is new to me.

DrForinor

dndrich I’m glad I chose this machine. Certainly much more capable than I’ll ever need. Looks way nicer than what the pictures suggest. Feels very slick, very high quality, very premium!! And a fair bit quieter than I expected given it’s a vibrating pump (and coming from the Gaggia). Two button purge, pre-infusion, PID, aw aw aw!! I love it already!!!

dndrich

DrForinor No argument here. I love it. Very Italian modern. Love the lighting and gauge. So many intelligent features and software to match. I use mine every day, and it delivers. Made two lovely delicious lattes back to back to enjoy with my wife.

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