I had bought a Gaggia Classic (2012 or 2014 model I think it is), with all the necessary mods already in place (PID, OPV fitted, Rancilio steam wand). For a while I used it regularly but then I put it away and used my bean to cup exclusively. Recently went to my cousin's house who has a Sage Barista Express and he made me coffee (Union Roasted Christmas blend, Baked Apple, Cinnamon, Cocoa notes). It tasted miles better than what the bean to cup produces, not a surprise. What was a complete surprise though was it looked like it would be awful tasting. Shot ran really quickly, water, and he had absolutely no clue about ratios. That gave me an incentive to dig my Gaggia out again. Recently bought the cheap single dose SPTK 38 grinder based on Dave's review of it, to use with the Gaggia. I'm pulling decent ratio (1-2.5), in about 30 seconds. Liquid pours after about 7 seconds. But it tastes meh. I've tried various different adjustments, sometimes I get a nice result, sometimes not. What I have noticed consistently is that the temperature on the PID display drops mid shot. But this drop varies from shot to shot. Sometimes 1-2 degrees, sometimes 3 degrees, sometimes the drop occurs slowly, sometimes quickly. When I bought this Gaggia, it was always only as a stepping stone to a better espresso machine. Recently I've been eyeing up the Lelit Mara X2. Would I get better results with the Lelit?

Not a Gaggia user so others may chip in but I don't think a 2-3c decrease in pid temp is particularly out of the ordinary. I'd also guess it's not what's at fault here but either way more info would be helpful. It would be helpful to hear what about it tastes bad and what type of beans you're using. And what starting temp are your brewing at?

The beans are Union Roasted, Christmas blend, which they state as medium roast - certainly doesn't look dark. I started with 96degC (I saw this drop to 93 at one point) but then adjust it to 95 (with the hope it will settle between 93-94). Initially I was aiming for 1:2 ration in 25-30sec but then I updosed, grind slightly coarser, and increased the dose (that's what one of the espresso help guides I read indicated based on what I was tasting). What I was tasting was no sweetness at all, struggling to taste the notes indicated, and it tasted under extracted (sour). I first tried grinding finer (only a notch to start with) but then that made it taste more bitter, I never got the sweetness. That when I decided to get help from online guides (regarding how to adjust based on what you are tasting). My very first started was 14g in, aiming for 28-30g out, in 30 seconds. What I have no eventually ended up with is 15.5g in, 43g out, 23 seconds and that has been the closest to tasting with some sweetness and closer resemblance to the indicated notes. I'm going to keep the 15.5g in, go half a notch finer for my next one and aim for 45g out, maybe take it to 26ish seconds I think. I'm not sure if that was at all helpful 🙅🏻♂️

@"DrForinor"#p33271 the temp registered on the pid doesn’t always reflect what’s measured at the portafilter for small single boilers. In the manual of my Ito mod there is some scace data on a Rancilio Silvia showing that with no heating during the shot the temperature measured by the pid dropped from 94-88°C, but the scace (I.e. puck temp) rose to 87°C over the first 11s and was then flat for the rest of the shot (if you’re interested then download the “leva! 2.0 for Ito” from http://projectcaffe.bplaced.net/downloads.html, and look in the firmware manual page 57). On the flip side if you can’t disable heating during a shot and the PID is kicking the element on to compensate for the incoming cold water, then you can end up with the water being too hot, especially as the water outlet pipe is usually quite close to the element. The piping also heats up so there is less cooling. The Ito manual stated they measured a 3°C increase in temperature from this effect. In summary, if you can’t disable heating during the shot you could try changing the set point and seeing if that helps. Or perhaps the beans are just meh.

@"DrForinor"#p33276 do the beans have a roast date? If they’re a few months old that won’t help either

The roast date on the bag is 1st Nov 2022

@"DrForinor"#p33280 on the older end then, but not terrible. I usually try to drink all my coffee in the 2 - 6 week post roast window

@"hornbyben"#p33281 What do you do with beans that might be older than 6 weeks? This was the reason for me updosing, and increasing yield (it's what my search revealed for older beans), and it certainly improved it for me.

@"DrForinor"#p33282 accept poorer flavour if I end up in that position, and try to buy fresher or drink quicker next time. If I know I definitely won’t be able to (like decaf that I keep in for guests) then I freeze them. Most decent roasters will send you coffee less than a week from roast (assuming Royal Mail don’t take forever to actually get it to you).

I used to set my PID to 102 degrees to allow for the tail off in temp. You could try that to see if the flavour improves or not.

@"Jollybean"#p33293 Thank you, I'll try that. Given the drawbacks that still exist in a Gaggia with a PID, (and keeping in mind that I always knew the Gaggia would only be a stepping stone), would the Lelit Mara X2 be a worthy upgrade? I don't steam much milk. Usually make my espresso, add water from the kettle as much as I need them add milk straight from the fridge. But I want a machine that will give me consistency without me worrying about it or having to make unnecessary adjustments for the lack of consistency.

Gaggia woes

DavecUK

DrForinor

you need to read this carefully https://sway.office.com/S5J4d9Jp4Y9LdVFx?ref=Link

If Ev1=1, then Steam preinfusion will always happen by default if the steam boiler is above 115C, below that temp, it will default to bloom phase.

What you want to do is not within the programming. It can only be achieved by having buttons set up correctly for both types of preinfusion and turning the steam boiler off, just before the shot if you want it to default to bloom phase. A simple press and hold the minus button for 3 seconds.

DrForinor

DavecUK Thanks.

I did read it all through. I just thought perhaps a 0 second would disable it haha. Ok, all good, thank you.

DavecUK

DrForinor I had to re read it…I’d forgotten what I wrote. 🤣

DrForinor

Is this normal? The brew boiler way overshoots my set temperature of 94degC? It actually went to 116.

MediumRoastSteam

DrForinor - Is that during startup? If so, perfectly normal, and that’s mentioned in Dave’s review.

https://sway.office.com/YUuIpMmQlYAFkxIO?ref=Link see: “Express Warm up (or Fast Warm up)”

DrForinor

MediumRoastSteam Yes during start up. I promise I did read ALL of Dave’s literature on the machine, even though it doesn’t seem like it! 🤦🏽‍♂️

MediumRoastSteam

DrForinor - That was your mistake. :-) - It’s a lot to take on. I read it about 10 times over a few weeks, and no doubt had to go back to it to read bits and bobs again just to make sure! 🤣

Cuprajake

Yeah man.

Clever way they heat up, but I hear you on the manual. These machines are so complex now

DrForinor

Does anyone know if this will fit the Elizabeth, please?

https://machina-coffee.com/collections/portafilters-and-baskets/products/58mm-bottomless-naked-portafilter-expobar-rancilio

Mattybar7

DrForinor if your ordering from there get some coffee aswell, clockwork is one of my favourites. See your in Aberdeen, if you go to the beach front look for Cairn Coffee and you’ll not be disappointed, great for a chat all this coffee as well.

dndrich

It should. Any standard stuff should fit. Mine is an ECM and it fits fine.

DrForinor

Mattybar7 Thanks for that.

I was initially dead set on getting it but the more I looked the more I realised it looks like any generic replacement. There’s obviously nothing wrong with it, but I think I’d rather wait for either a genuine Lelit bottomless, or a nice looking one, which means not ordering from there - and obviously no coffee.

But, I will certainly pop in to Cairn Coffee, thanks.

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