New kickstarter campaign for TIMEMORE Sculptor
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chlorox I just urge caution until things are proved based on considerable experience in the coffee area. I posted this about burrs on HB, hopefully you will find it interesting, especially @tompoland as I believe there was a post about expectations of 83mm Mazzer burrs performing the same in different grinders (also remember there are 2 variants of the 151B).
Sure I helped with the design, testing and specification of the Duo grinder and you may believe I have unconscious bias, however, I don’t make any money if you buy it, I don’t have a Patreon, I don’t monetize my channel even though I could and I have not put videos up to get clicks and views. I’m about as honest and knowledgeable as you are going to get and my past 20 year record speaks for itself. I don’t have to continually proclaim my honesty and depth of knowledge the moment I am butt hurt like some do. I don’t have hidden connections and I test properly. I don’t even call myself the “burr man”, I would be embarrassed to do that. I can only say, after many years, I know a little bit about burrs.
**maccompatible wrote:**I’ve heard the popular claim that slower RPM = less fines. A recent Lance Hedrick video claimed that RPM does NOT affect fines, but rather affects peak particle distribution. I haven’t really seen data either way, so this would be an interesting part of this discussion if anyone’s done it.
Do you have the link for that, I probably have not viewed it, but what is stated doesn’t match my own tests and results over more than 5 years. In fact, the EK43 results sound far more plausible with the types of burr sets being used and it doesn’t surprise me that the EK43 would produce more fines, it’s exactly what I would expect.
I suspect there may be reasons for the claims, specifically with the Sculptor only going as low as 800 rpm and severely torque limited at that RPM, as are many variable speed grinders at their minimum rpm. Other things apart from torque, such as burr geometry, carrier and sweep arm design etc.. all contribute to running at a low rpm being quite challenging, again something I have worked on for over 18 months.
by jfjj » Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:13 am
I saw that and kinda confused me a bit. I’d like to see the data on that. So faster RPM shifts to finer??
Faster RPM doesn’t produce finer particles because of speed per se. Rotational speed affects burr distance for any given grind, this burr distance dictates what I call “burr packing”. These things, plus geometry, affect feed rate, which together affect grind quality for any given burrset. It’s one of the reasons conical hand grinders work as well as they do and slow moving conical burr sets work better.
It’s a fairly complex area, but recent grinders I have played with which allow you to check the Micron distance between burrs support my views. I suspect as the grinder world moves forward, these effects will become far more important and “variable speed” will either be done right, especially as manufacturers aim for lower rotational burr speeds and overcome the challenges this poses. The challenges are, burr geometry, torque, feed rate and chamber clearance. There are certain rules that need to be followed and many burr types I have seen won’t properly support low speeds.
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chlorox While I appreciate you views on bias, we just can’t make a comparative reference or bucket two extremes in the same category. I would treat any review, however good it may be, that has an underlying commercial benefit (direct and indirect) cautiously. I wouldn’t base my personal buying decision on the basis of those reviews / recommendations. Period.
Edit :
I made 4 purchases - 3 are based on Dave’s reviews so far.
Jx Pro, Osmio Zero and Evo. They are excellent and perfect for our needs
Edit :
The Duo is on a preorder. This was before any testers were allowed to post their views. I have no doubts it will serve us very well for a long time.
Thoroughly enjoying this thread and the diversity of respectful opinions.
DavecUK I appreciate your words of wisdom Dave. I think I’ve copied and pasted every word you’ve posted here an on HB in the Duo threads, and printed them out in a special binder.
To be clear, my mad plan involves first getting all of the 83mm burrs here (still five sets to come) and seasoning them and comparing them using the DF83s sitting in my roastery. They may never see the inside of the Duo, that will depend on some carefully caliper measurements first.
As mentioned somewhere else, to me the DFs are blunt instruments. Not a lot in the way of finesse or fine tolerances which may make them more suited to burr swapping than the Duo which has been more carefully designed and the engineering more precise. Perhaps the DFs are a bit like a 1960’s Morris Minor: maybe not too flash but you can mess around with them a bit and not cause too much mayhem. Versus messing around with an F1…
That’s not to detract from the DF all all, it has it’s place for sure and I’m quite enjoying them. They just are not finessed like a Niche and the price point reflects that.
tompoland To be clear, my mad plan involves first getting all of the 83mm burrs here (still five sets to come) and seasoning them and comparing them using the DF83s sitting in my roastery. They may never see the inside of the Duo, that will depend on some carefully caliper measurements first.
The critical thing is that the lowest portion of the grind path is above the edge of the carrier and sweep arms. I have 4 different types on order to test.
Noticed a new video popped up showing the 064s..
Though the streams are messy and chaotic you do get to see the product in a much more natural environment amongst all the mess !
I picked up on this comments about if you are a milk drinker then you will probably not notice the difference between grinders.. cheap or expensive.. now I dont have the experience to agree/disagree but its a interesting point. Milk does seem to save my drinks when the extractions have gone a bit left field.
I was going to go for a white 064s - but have too say the black looks good as well..
caffeinated-carp What did i just watch :)
Inspector lol, Hoon seems to have an interesting style. It was livestreamed I guess so ok, but yeh it’s sortof…I don’t know I really gain a lot from it being honest. Nice I suppose to see it to get a feel for size and what it sounds like, but not sure I got a lot past that if I’m being honest
i was on live stream with hoon, lol
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
caffeinated-carp I find the same with Hoon’s channel, you could spend 20mins watching one of his videos and not really get any unique insight beyond a list of the product specifications.
There’s another guy that keeps popping up in my Youtube recommended feed (https://www.youtube.com/@mycoffeeshow111) and it’s the same thing. ’Oh look, I have this new product let’s see if it works, yes it does’ then it’s just on to the next product in a new video 😬
whinmoor85 Yeh he seems like a decent fella but it does seem a bit, not sure of the word, just almost as if I (not knowing that much) just started up a channel and started talking about a grinder and stating things that anyone else could figure out. It’s possibly a bit too conversational, although I suppose that’s refreshing in other ways.
FWIW I’ve given up on the Gorilla Gear (NICHE) burrs. The new set are also stalling and I’m fed up with the faff. John Young has agreed to give me my money back. Meanwhile I’ve taken a bit or a punt and ordered an 078s. If I don’t like it I reckon I can always sell it for what it cost and put the money towards a NICHE DUO
Which ships first duo or sculptor
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Is it true timemore are covering the import fees? Or am I mixing that up with another product
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
caffeinated-carp I’m not throwing shade at Hoon in particular, I just think most Youtube coffee channels don’t offer any unique inisght or expertise, they just exist to acquire gear.