Hi,

Thought I would create a thread seperate to the knowledgebase review purely as that thread does not seem to register updates in the same way as the rest of the forum.

@tompoland @wilburpan - Please feel free to add anything you think would be useful here as you both have had it far longer than I.

At the moment I have a light/medoum and decaff beans on the go - and very slowly I am trying to dial them in (though tbh understanding what tastes good/correct esp when milk drinks are involved is pretty hard for me šŸ˜‚)

Luckily one of my gas hobs seems to hit the 6 min window perfectly when running on full - so thats one variable I donā€™t have to worry about.

I have started with 18g doses and then setting/adjusting the grind (omega with large jumps and the c40 with redclix for smaller adjustments)

I do find its either very quick once it starts to flow - or very slow at over a minute. Not entirelly sure yet how the different beans then need a certain extraction.

My basic understanding would be light roasts are finer/ longer - whereas darker would be coarser/quicker ?

So far I am trying to nail a grind level which does not stall it completely and then I will try adjusting the dose around that. Is this a sensible way to tackle dialing in on the 9barista ?

In other news I have ordered a screen/clip from ali express to replace the rubber cover - it looks very much like the ims moka type screen I have purchased. It will be interesting to see if that makes any difference ( and it was alot cheaper than the bplus kit !!)

    MattH I have started with 18g doses and then setting/adjusting the grind (omega with large jumps and the c40 with redclix for smaller adjustments)

    I do find its either very quick once it starts to flow - or very slow at over a minute.

    I think what youā€™re seeing is the limitation of stepped grinders. One setting may be too coarse for what you want, and the next step over is too fine. This could also be partly due to the beans that youā€™re using. Iā€™ve found that the lighter the roast, the more sensitive the extraction time is to the grind setting. I havenā€™t had experience with decaffeinated beans, but from what Iā€™ve read, they are harder to dial in than a non-decaffeinated bean.

    Iā€™m assuming that you donā€™t like the taste of what youā€™re getting. Although thereā€™s a general target of a 25-35s extraction time that 9Barista suggests, thatā€™s just a starting point, and taste trumps everything. @tompoland says that for him, 40-45s works the best. My general sweet spot is around 30-35s with the beans that we usually use, but I recently had a bag of single origin medium roast beans that wanted a 45s extraction time. Iā€™ve had shots that took over a minute to extract, and shots that were done in 20s, and they both tasted great.

    First thing to do, if you havenā€™t done this already, is to keep a log. Hereā€™s my fancy one from when I had a stepped grinder. The numbers are grind setting, dose, (extraction time), and then maybe a note on how the shot was. I generally just wrote down the grind setting and dose that I wanted to try for the next time based on the taste of the shot.

    The good news is that you can mitigate the stepped setting issue by adjusting the dose. Instead of going finer, increase the weight of the beans by 0.5g steps. You can also drop the weight of the beans if youā€™re too fine, but Iā€™ve had better results by going up on the weight.

    Conventional espresso making technique says that the dose should be sized to the size of the basket, and you should use other variables to adjust the extraction. Things are different with the 9Barista, as grind and dose are the only things that can be changed. But it works.

    Finally, thereā€™s a nice diagram in the 9Barista instruction book that gives guidance on how to adjust the grind and the weight based on what youā€™re trying to change in terms of the taste. Make sure you take a look at that.

        wilburpan Thanks for that - very usefulā€¦.

        I have been using notes on my phone to keep a running track - though I may have gotten confused along the way - and mixed some entries up šŸ˜‚

        Taste wise it all tastes ok but I donā€™t think I can really tell much difference unless its truely a mess ! Plus most of the time its a milk based drink which hides all evils šŸ˜‚

        Heres one of my tablesā€¦ maybe I should try more straight espressos to get a idea on how the taste differs !

        Paddy and Scott - Easy Days

        Light Roast

        Coffee Grind Level Output (grams)

        18 16 38 - 26sec

        18 14 34 - over 1 min

        18 15 37 - 45 sec

        17 14 26 - 97 sec

            Yeah as above, itā€™s one of the limitations of stepped grinders and to be honest youā€™ve done well to get that little variation on a light roast as theyā€™re notoriously tricky to dial in. Even on a stepless it can be a bit of a faff.

            Mediums / darks are a lot more forgiving and you might find the variance between clicks on the grinder is small enough that you can get a better result.

            Sounds like I will end up with a good excuse for a stepless grinder šŸ˜‚. Though I donā€™t mind the hand grinding as the numbers of drinks are low currently.

              MattH Light Roast

              Coffee Grind Level Output (grams)

              18 16 38 - 26sec

              18 14 34 - over 1 min

              18 15 37 - 45 sec

              17 14 26 - 97 sec

              Iā€™m going to parse this a little, just to show how I approach the dialing in process.

              Coffee Grind Level Output (grams)

              18 16 38 - 26sec

              18 15 37 - 45 sec

              18 14 34 - over 1 min

              Here you can see the effect of grind (Iā€™m assuming that lower numbers = finer). The finer you go, the longer the extraction time is. The ~20s jumps in extraction time is a result of the limitations of a stepped grinder.

              Coffee Grind Level Output (grams)

              18 14 34 - over 1 min

              17 14 26 - 97 sec

              Here weā€™re looking at the same grind setting, but changing the dose. Iā€™m not exactly sure what ā€œover 1 minā€ is, but by going from 18g to 17g, the extraction time should drop. My general strategy is to settle on a grind setting that is one step too coarse for what I want, and then increase the dose to increase the extraction time and adjust the flavor. Iā€™ve found that to be more successful and more controllable than going one step too fine and decreasing the dose.

              Finally, measuring the output of the 9Barista is interesting, but of limited utility. The 9Barista is going to put out what itā€™s going to put out. I generally use the output as a check to see that there isnā€™t anything grossly wrong with my extraction ā€” if itā€™s way out of the 1:2-1:2.2 range, I know somethingā€™s wrong.

              Itā€™s nice to know what kind of ratio youā€™re getting, but thereā€™s no way to really control that reliably. People have tried things like adjusting the heat or taking the 9Barista off the stove once the extraction starts. In my hands, doing these things has little impact on the flavor or output of the shot, and is hard to do consistently. I have a suspicion that any impact on taste by changing the heat during the extraction is primarily due to the placebo effect.

                MattH Go for it! I love my DF83 solely for the reason that itā€™s stepless. Also, being able to grind the beans in ~10s is really nice, especially since I start the heating process with just the middle and bottom sections on the stove. Then I grind the beans, put it into the top part, and then finish assembling the whole thing. With my older, slower grinder, there were times where the grinding took long enough that I almost couldnā€™t get everything together before the water boiled.

                Not sure I could do this with a hand grinder because of running out of time, but then again, Iā€™ve never used one.

                    wilburpan itā€™s hard, if not impossible, to beat the DF83 and DF64 in the ā€œvalue for moneyā€ department. Owners give them both top marks for low retention, ease of use and durability.