Bottled Water and Descalling Espresso Machine

Thanks @Rob1

I downloaded the IPad XL App and used your spreadsheet.

I wasn’t sure how to use the Ashbeck data but I input the data from my water authority and got the results below, looks like my tap water is ok apparat from slight corrosion potential.

Is there anything I could add to tap water to lessen the corrosion risk ?

Waitforme I wasn’t sure how to use the Ashbeck data but I input the data from my water authority and got the results below, looks like my tap water is ok apparat from slight corrosion potential

Ashbeck just lists Calcium, Magnesium and bicarbonate to put in the tables at the top?

Anyway, you can add bicarbonates to raise alkalinity to the example above. Tap water can be quite inconsistent, the supplier only cares that things are within acceptable limits.

There are 5 pages to the spreadsheet (I think) the 4th one is the remineralisation page all blank, the 5th is just an example to refer to.

So in preparation for the delivery of my Minima I’m looking at my water. I’ve put 5l of tap water through the zero jug, which is giving me a TDS reading of 0 with the reader that came with the unit.

I have just cracked open the API drop test kit. Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but I presume I’m supposed to be looking at GH as opposed to KH?

Using the GH test kit, one drop turned the water in the tube green. If I understand correctly, with this testing kit, for boiler safe water I need to get to having to put 3 drops into the water in order to bring it to 53.7 or thereabouts (stage 3) on the conversion chart?

What would be the best way to harden the water? should I mix with some more tap water or should I be using something else?

Does the alkalinity take care of itself with the GH test, or do I need to do something else as well?

Apologies for the questions, just want to make sure I’ve got this right before putting in into a brand new Minima haha

LMSC For alkalinity, you need at least 40 mg/l, which you can get by adding 50 mg/l of sodium bicarbonate.

It’s 67mg/l Sodium bicarb for 40mg/l alkalinity but unless you’ve got lab scales you’ll probably need to make a concentrate instead.

dutchy101 I have just cracked open the API drop test kit. Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but I presume I’m supposed to be looking at GH as opposed to KH?

Ideally, control the KH for alkalinity and the zero water jug should keep GH down. You can mix with tap water or add potassium/sodium bicarb….or both if you want. Test for both. If you can’t fit 20ml in the test tube just use an espresso cup.

Thanks guys. The test tubes provided are 5ml so will find a different vessel for the tests.

Out of interest, do those with RO units do this test every time you make up a batch of water or do you just trust the RO to be consistent and work to the formula you’ve worked out?

Rob1 It’s 67mg/l Sodium bicarb for 40mg/l alkalinity but unless you’ve got lab scales you’ll probably need to make a concentrate instead.

Thx mate. Bizzare, the excel on my local disk shows 50 mg/l.

Not sure what happened. I will grab another copy.

dutchy101

dutchy101 Out of interest, do those with RO units do this test every time you make up a batch of water or do you just trust the RO to be consistent and work to the formula you’ve worked out?

No. I test the water from RO unit when I flush out every 4-5 weeks. It’s too much of a faff otherwise.😊

That’s what I wanted to hear - thanks

LMSC Thx mate. Bizzare, the excel on my local disk shows 50 mg/l.

The excel is correct on the screenshot, you’re just not looking at the right thing. The remineralisation page will show the correct amount of Sodium bicarb (or anything else) to add to get the desired alkalinity.

Rob1 Oh I see. I will check the other sheet.

Cuprajake Please share if you can. I am not sure if it can be inserted into Rob’s excel.

Thx

Did anyone get to the bottom of is it better to add Potassium Bicarbonate or Sodium Bicarbonate to Ashbeck?

If so how much was needed to be added to a 5 litre bottle. I have attempted to use the linked spread sheet but I am just not getting it!

LMSC Test both the GH — hardness and KH — Alkalinity
Please take 20 ml water for each test
1 drop at a time, shake and proceed further. You stop when you get green for GH and yellow for KH
Multiply the number of drops using the table
Divide the result by 4 to get the 5 ml reading.
The result will be X mg/l
Plug that on Rob’s excel and post it here.
For alkalinity, you need at least 40 mg/l, which you can get by adding 50 mg/l of sodium bicarbonate.

OK, so I’ve just taken two 20ml samples. For hardness (GH) the water started to turn a very weak green after 1 drop and then a bit stronger after the 2nd and gets to a more solid green at about 4 drops. The same was true for the KH test to turn the water yellow but perhaps 5 drops to get to the more solid yellow.

Looking at the chart, the ppm level for 4 drops is 71.6, so if I’ve understood when you say “multiply the number of drops using the table” correctly, I should multiply that by 4 and then divide this again by 4 to give me the 5ml reading, which would be 71.6 for hardness?

Using the same method and 5 drops of the KH solution is 89.5 × 5 drops = 447 divided by 4 = 111.8 alkalinity

I’ve plugged these into the relevant section of the table.

I think the table is giving you the 4 drop measure at 71.6, which should be divided by 4 to get the 5ml result.

Cool - this makes sense. I wasn’t sure about the multiplying stage (I guess not all kits have charts, but might give a formula to work out instead. The table now looks like this:

So this is the state of the zero water in terms of hardness and alkalinity. I now need to work out what I need to add in terms of remineralising to bring it to boiler safe levels.

dutchy101

Right, firstly that doesn’t show you need 48.8mg Sodium Bicarb, it shows you need 48.8mg/l Bicarbonate.

The table below that shows how much sodium bicarb (or another source of bicarbonates to add).

E.G The Molar mass of Sodium Bicarb = Molar mass of Sodum + Molar mass of Bicarbonate (1 of each)…..the molar masses are listed on the spreadsheet.

The amount of bicarbonate you want to add is = to the bicarbonate required for alkalinity. The amount of sodium you get will be automatically calculated to the right hand side of the table based on this.

Underneath you define whether or not you’re making a concentrate. Since you’re not you follow the instructions for that, from memory you change “the amount of concentrate to use” under “ml” to 1, “to be added to” to 0 the “amount of concentrate to make” to whatever quantity of water you are remineralising directly. This makes the dilution cell read “1” which is to say no dilution is taking place and you then define the quantity of water you’re dealing with….if you want to break the spreadsheet for future use you can just edit the red dilution cell to 1.

So the amount of Sodium bicarb you need to add is defined by the bicarbonate you need to add to get the alkalinity with the addition of the sodium you will also add by default to get that alkalinity.

Use the same process for whatever other source of Bicarb you might use and whatever source of hardness you use, as you’ve decided you want to add hardness. You have many sources of Mesgnesium to choose from, most people go for Sulfate or chloride but I don’t like either and wouldn’t want chloride in steel boilers.