I would like to see a real world objective test with information about what am I missing by Only enjoying a £880 Mazer Philos as opposed to the Lagom and even the EG1 or monolith flat.

The EG1 is raved about by certain people, Hedrick, Rudolph etc one of which should know his stuff, but doesn’t seem popular to all.

The comparisons should clearly say things Like how much “better” the coffee is in the cup and what better actually means to the tester, i e. What i would find at home. And an impression of life span and expected repairs along the lifecycle.

Not sure how an informative comparison can be made by a brief overview at a trade show.

For me the Philos was my second most expensive grinder purchase.

For me it makes the DF83v2 look like a £300 grinder , in fact on a par with the smart grinder pro for consistency . Extremely disappointing purchase in many ways . Put me off the “DF” for good.

To me, Philos is better than the df83, niche zero and sage smart grinder pro(!!)

Then theres the t64. The philos should out-last the t64 by a margin but the coffee is pretty much on par . Not the same but then the differences are personal and one day you would prefer either . Both worthy of the home coffee bar.

Same comments really for the Duo. Very similar and getting closer to the same perceived build quality. I still have the Duo and Philos in daily use and the Prime a few times a week (my oldest and most expensive purchase!). Considering boxing the prime and giving the key a second chance now im ready to accept a minute squirt of mist isn’t going to hurt it.

I would love to be able to go further and compare the £880 to the £3000 but am not in a position to have this kind of kit sent to me for evaluation or to purchase one when I do not think i could see it as being better to give a 3.4 X price premium. Im not aware of anywhere having this kind if kit available to test.

As for the EK43 i get the impression it is a fantastic pour over grinder for a cafe but not a serious home grinder if your main interest is espresso. I see them when abroad working, in supermarkets where they throw kg after kg through it , grinding customers bean purchases. A real consistent work horse in that environment.

My job is nothing to do with coffee, other than a travel mug in my van(!) but im and engineer type and may look for different things than some of you on here. Im as interested in the design and build quality as i am in the taste in the cup.

I also appreciate the different costs associated with precision machining and assembly as opposed to my imagined view of a cheaper low quality plant and assembly line.

Notice the lack of the Chinese tag which so many freely toss around to mean low quality.

The best and the worst products come from China.

Then some great products come from Taiwan, USA, Italy, Germany and dare i say, UK.

Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

About Me

    There is generally a lot of rubbish talked about by Influencers. The one that irritates me most is that the EG1 is endgame, the finest grinder, the best. It’s absolutely not and my advice would be to steer clear of the EG1. If you see one used, go buy something else.

    I don’t particularly love the P100, but it’s way better than the EG1. However if you get a chance to buy a Kafatec Flat Max 2 with Shurikens, go for it, used or new. That particular grinder I believe at the moment to be one of the finest grinders you can buy in the up to 4 or 5K price range.

      Cuprajake
      I am not sure that the ssp burrs were made specifically for any one grinder. At least I haven’t read anything to that effect. Iy makes sense to me that there will be a certain minimum rpm at which it needs to spin to evacuate grinds sufficiently fast enough to dump all of it out of the chute without needing to twack or click an evacuation device but that rpm will depend on the internal design of the grinder concerned. But unless the rpm is so slow that it causes the grinds to back up so badly it falls back into the burr chamber to be reground from the other direction, I don’t see why it should really matter from a results perspective.

        DavecUK
        Yes the eg-1 is a triumph of design as it looks so good, but like that stereotype of the airheaded blonde, does it have any real substance? I suspect it’s looks have caused there to be a lot of confirmation bias going on, and even hoffman is partial to snazzy looking gear. I refuse to even consider it on principle because it is priced at such an elevated price that one wonders why? It is manufactured entirely on an oem basis by a Taiwanese manufacturer. There is not evne any final assembly in usa unlike the case with the argo, AFAIK. If so why the big bucks price? Why is it more expensive than even the monolith max 2 which is a labour of love by a perfectionist? At least Option-O l’s 98mm and 102mm grinders are the cheapest by some distance of any titan flat grinder today so some of the savings from the China manufacturing base is passed down to the Consumer…

        Speaking of the monolith max 2, I was in fact on its waiting list but had to sell my spot as I just could not square away how expensive it would be. How can we not be enthused by a product that is made by a guy so passionate abojt grinders he made his own from ground up and even designed and made the burrs? I would love to have one with shuriken SLM burrs but must consign that to the realm of what if for budgetary reasons!

        chlorox the 83mm were originally. for the mazzer

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

        Adrianmsmith
        Frankly for all i know, if I am blindfolded I may have a problem distinguishing one grinder from another from the taste of the coffee produced alone as i have never done any double blind tests. I think to some degree we r all buying into the hype - the best we can do about that is to be self aware about that aspect and not buy gear that is so expensive that it causes us any financial issues or that we cannot recoup at least much of what we paid if we sell it. After all it’s supposed to be fun, not business…

        DavecUK

        When you are ready to part with it, please PM me with your price.

        Thanks

        😎

        Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

        About Me

          Adrianmsmith When you are ready to part with it, please PM me with your price.

          It’s not mine, I just have it on long term loan, almost 2 years and counting. The Flat Max is the same, but I would love to buy that one!

            DavecUK

            Yes i was meaning the flat max 😎🤭

            Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.

            About Me

              chlorox Secondhand EK43? I’ve seen a few under £1k.
              But if espresso based be careful what you wish for, because it’s a whole new world.

              Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.

                I’m going to bowl for the EG-1 here! It is pricey, there is no doubt about that. But it looks and feels so good. The tactile experience of using this grinder is superior to any I’ve used. Odd to say that, but each use is a real pleasure. I think a lot of the price reflects design and materials, and I’m OK with that. For me the Core burrs make fantastic espresso. A great balance between texture and clarity. Is it the best grinder on the world? I don’t think that is an answerable question. For me it makes better coffee than a Vario, Ceado E37s (with SSP HU burrs), Weber Key and a Comandante C40 (all owned at some point).

                I’d love to try a P100. From what I’ve read it will beat an EG-1 with Core burrs for clarity. Same goes for the Kafeteks. Super high clarity espresso is an interesting experience but for me espresso needs texture, as well as flavour separation. That’s why I think the EG-1 is so good.

                I do love a Dave C long-form article as they are always informative. So I will read a review with real interest. Reading the previous posts here though I think Dave C has laid the smack down on my entire grinder history at some point 😂.

                  JimmyP
                  I believe the ek43 has a very narrow range for espresso unless Turkish burrs are used? The problem.with the ek43 is its dimensions that make it too tall for many kitchen counters as well as its high retention. Still, the ek omnia was very interesting though the same issues still appear to apply for the omnia as well.

                    axpetts
                    My understanding on the kafatek max 2 is that many report that its shuriken LM burrs are supposed to bring good clarity with good texture as well.

                    The eg-1 does look great. It looks like one of those hi tech equipment in high budget science fiction movies. The price however is difficult to countenance especially for a made in Taiwan 80mm grinder where labour and production costs should be lower than. In most western countries.

                      chlorox The eg-1 does look great. It looks like one of those hi tech equipment in high budget science fiction movies. The price however is difficult to countenance especially for a made in Taiwan 80mm grinder where labour and production costs

                      It is also no where near as good as the Kafatec Flat Max 2 with shurikens…not even close.

                        chlorox Yes it’s impractical, but I think the retention issue is overstated. If you’re looking for 98mm and high clarity I’m not sure what else you can buy under £1k? 🤷‍♂️
                        It’s opened a whole new world for me.

                        Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.

                        DavecUK Interested in where the big advantages lie? 🤔

                        Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.

                          JimmyP Interested in where the big advantages lie? 🤔

                          • Size (The P100 is a bit of a lump (very very heavy), looks like two offset catering size baked bean tins, not an aesthetic that thrills me)
                          • Usability and Pleasant to use
                          • Better burrs
                          • Much better made (IMO)

                          I have a P100 on the bench, but don’t ever feel like I want to use it when I am not testing something else. If I’m not testing I like to Use a Niche Duo, the T64 Solo and the Kafatec FM2

                          The grinding/taste is fine, the Kafatec with Shuriken burrs is better

                            DavecUK Thanks, and interesting that the downsides do not relate to cup quality, but it was the EG-1 reference that particularly interested me? 🤔

                            Flair 58, Mahlkonig EK43, Kinu M47, 1zpresso ZP6.