Are they putting less coffee in our coffee shop drinks?

Are we talking independent shops or chains?

Most of the flat whites I order in coffee shops unless it’s a roastery cafe either taste like just warm milk or sour dishwater. Despite having all the equipment to suggest they know what they’re doing…

It’s why I stopped going to coffee shops as often. I’m not sure it’s a deliberate attempt to reduce the coffee used, more like staff who either haven’t been trained properly or stopped caring after their first day.

I think a lot of chain coffee shops sell very large drinks but virtually all their espresso based drinks will have the same size shot in them. The big drinks just end up being very watered (milked?) down.

You just need to look at the standard size of a cup from Costa or Starbucks and then their large cups. Most independent shops seem to use smaller cups.

drdre89 if it’s a proper coffee shop, rather than a chain I generally ask about their recipe as interested to learn and most baristas happy to share. My favourite does 15g/32g at 5bar whilst another does 20g /40g at 9 bat and both taste good.

simonc A 5-bar shot? That’s an interesting recipe for a shop. I wonder if that’s because of the lower bean weight? I wonder if they worked that out as their maximium extraction (without compromising taste)? It’s so far from the traditional 9 bar… Or perhaps playing with pressure is more common that I would expect from shops. What’s your experience @simonc? Are they an outlier?

You’ve made me curious about my favourite shops.

Jcheney The main issue, is that they use a bean that does not cut across milk well. You need a darker roasted bean, preferably with a hint of robusta. Once that is sorted, then as mentioned, they have to realise that 36 gms of espresso in half a pint of milk cannot taste the same as in ¾′d of a pint!

drdre89 Why waste time/$ going to any shop when you have a very capable setup at home? Personally I haven’t been to a shop in yrs and have never found one worth a repeat visit. Not to mention that I’m getting superb results (for me) at home for about .40 per double due to my own roasting and the entire setup has long paid for itself. Bottom line is if you want something done right you simply have to do it yourself as most shops/restaurants rarely come close.

drdre89 I thought lattes are always double - like flat white. Please try flat white next time, better still don’t drink coffee outside 😂

JonWoo187 thankfully I work in London so have some very capable shops with very knowledgeable baristas who make better coffee than I do. Who use different beans for espresso and milk over time that they taste and choose etc etc and dial in better than me. At home I only have one I drink coffee from.

Jcheney it’s Store Street, a chain of 3 (I think) in London. Agree it’s unusual but done very deliberately for taste ( although sure it helps with margin too). I have very good conversations with the baristas about the latest single origin they have for both brew and espresso and what they are selling as beans. I walk past 4 other shops to go there.

simonc work in London so have some very capable shops

Please try Kiss the Hippo next time. They have 4 locations in London.

https://kissthehippo.com/pages/locations

Amberale

I’ve never heard of a Magic. You’re in Australia right?

As with the flat white I’m sure we’ll catch up in 10-15 years.

Ernie1

Yes it is typical Melbourne coffee wannk but a really nice way to drink milk coffee without totally drowning the bean.

Amberale isn’t a double ristretro with 160ml milk what a flat white was originally.

Too often now it’s too much effort to change the shot so often now made with the shops standard shot and often more milk.

simonc

Very hard to tie down but I believe the flat white was/is a double espresso shot plus 160ml of milk wheras the Magic is a double Ristretto with milk in a 160ml glass/cup.

“A flat white is made with 2oz of espresso and 6oz of steamed milk, whereas a Magic Coffee is made with 1oz ristretto and 5oz steamed milk. Compare it to a latte and you’ve got a totally different hot drink: a latte is made with 2oz espresso and 10oz milk.”

dfk41 I’ve always wondered about adding a touch of Robusta to my single origin drinks as I primarily drink milky. I’ve never researched how to handle grind size or where to source good robusta from, so never tried it, but it’s on the list.

Amberale A flat white is made with 2oz of espresso and 6oz of steamed milk, whereas a Magic Coffee is made with 1oz ristretto and 5oz steamed milk

Unless the shop is geared for making different styles of espresso (different grinders) I’d love to know how the barista is pulling this magical double ristretto vs a double espresso.

I usually pull my shots at a 2:1: 18g in, 36g, producing a volume of approx 45ml. I could instead dose 14g, yielding 28g and a volume of approx 34ml. Just over 1oz in volume. Is that a double shot or a double ristretto? Maybe a double ristretto in modern speak is a shot pulled at a 1.5:1 ratio?

Very woolly descriptions…. 😊