Why you might not want to buy a Londinium

I do not exactly like Lance (personally do not like his presentation style, as I thought he often goes over the top, and it has been pointed out here multiple times that he gets things incorrectly), but Reiss’s response is … something else Lance Hedrick’s review of the Cremina killer he doesnt want to talk about: Londinium Vectis (londiniumespresso.com)

Well there’s a brand I won’t be buying :D

DavecUK

Thanks for the explanation. I recall an owner of that machine quoting boyles law on a forum but I was wondering if that was actually a verified fact because it seemed to me to be most difficult way of changing temp that one could possibly choose even if it did work. Why not just change the grouphead temp directly rwther than messing about with preinfusion pressure, I thought…

chlorox Ah, you forget the magic Londinium fairy dust!

DavecUK

This is interesting - could it be that the reason why many owners of londonium r24 may be for the sae reason why lower pressure shots like from the lambro are so well liked by many people? Perhaps the owner of londonium intentionally specced lower pressure springs for this reason though attributing rhe quality of the shots to other factors.

chlorox anything is possible, but I doubt it!

What a shame Reiss decided to post such a hateful response to a review and target his own customers with abusive comments – quite hard to believe. Reviews are subjective by definition, and you would think it obvious to anyone in the business of selling coffee machines (or any other product), that you should expect to receive a balance of feedback, both good and bad. A review is an opportunity to consider a point of view, then decide if you can add anything useful.

I wouldn’t describe the reactionary response given as a “normal response” by any measure. It amounts to little more than a personal attack on named individuals and is entirely unacceptable. Like a few folk on here, I have owned more than one Londinium machine in the past and were I still in possession of one now, I would feel shame by association. The Londinium reputation is certainly growing…..

AlJames Hi Al, it sounds as if you were on the receiving end at one point, so are speaking from experience!

Reiss’s history is interesting. He is a one man band. Began by roasting coffee and retailing coffee kit in a small way. He wanted to design his own lever which debuted around 2011 as the Londinium L1 - no small achievement. As Reiss has no manufacturing base, he teamed up with Fracino who build and despatch machines on Reiss’s behalf. Given Reiss is halfway round the world in New Zealand, he is at Fracino’s mercy particularly QC-wise. That said, what Reiss has achieved is worthy of credit and respect.

Around 2013, a contributor to Home Barista published some results showing the Londinium’s temp stability fluctuating. It led to a heated and at times acrimonious discussion where Reiss challenged the results (sound familiar) arguing the temp dips were caused by the thermosyphon stalling due to long pre-infusions which the machine wasn’t designed to handle. In those days, the machine was set up for darker roasts - pre-infuse for 3-5 secs max and then pull the shot - total shot time 25 - 27 secs. If memory serves, in the end, Reiss acknowledged some of the contributor’s points and graciously apologised.

More recently and worryingly, Reiss turned his support blog into a closed shop. You have to seek permission to gain access. Since then, there have been quite a number of owners who have been cancelled by Reiss meaning they have no access to ongoing support. Same happened to me. I had two Londiniums at the time. When I asked why, I was told by Reiss ‘a little bird had told him I was considering selling them’. If I had any doubts about sticking with Londinium, that clinched it.

From the beginning of Londinium, Reiss has been a showman and prone to sweeping statements. When the L1 was launched he opined there was no place in a lever machine for PID control. Fast forward a few years, his machines incorporate them. Same with dipper design. He said they were fundamentally flawed, until of course, he released a machine reliant on this technology. Reiss is also happy to take pot shots at other manufacturers but complains bitterly if he is on the receiving end.

It is a shame Reiss has turned Londinium into an echo chamber where dissent or criticism is met with cancellation - not the way to run a business IMO.

I use LR for 6 years now.

I won’t comment about the owner personality as I do not know Reiss personally. The communication style - again, not my style, but if this the way Reiss decided to run his business this is his choice. Topics like this, with such title, well, I do not believe this is the best idea, but the same argument we can use again, if this is how Dave decided to run his forum, his decision. IMHO too many wars in the world, to open one more ;).

From technical support perspective never had any problems. All the maintenance part I needed were delivered within days.

The part that failed and I had to replace were the Meter p-stat. Delivered free of charge after warranty. Then I upgraded to the digital trans, paying with my own money.

Recently the no-grease seals were released, this is is really nice improvement. Using this for a month, so cannot say about longevity, but so far so good. Allowed me also to use the Matrix shower screen, as now no grease can clog it.

The KB is pretty solid, nice videos done by one of the friends of Reiss from Netherlands. Response to the support ticket are usually within a day (time difference against Europe).

Never regret the decision to own one. And this is probably the feedback you will hear from majority of L users. It is quite easy to pick few or even tens of unhappy users and make conclusions the same applies to everyone else. It is oversimplification.

I also have a CT2, so you can probably tell I am biased towards lever. Well, yes :)