Am I doing something wrong? What is the right technique? I am not sure there is a ‘gold-standard’ technique. What works for me is a 15 second shake- in effect, you are trying to get the coffee grinds to adhere to each other, which LH refers to as densification. Tap the shaker on the counter to get the grinds off the walls and the lid. I then place the dosing ring on top of the portafilter and place the shaker on top. The coffee can land in a heap, but as recommended in the Weber videos, a single swirling motion effectively flattens the puck. The dosing ring creates a ridge- tapping the portafilter gets rid of it. Alternatively, you can use the WDT needles to even the bed. Not sure if tapping is required tbh.

My preferred technique is a constant flow. With the current coffee, this means a pressure of about 7 bar after preinfusion but rapidly falling to 3 bar. Not tried decaf so cannot comment.

I do not use RDT as I think it introduces another variable to the mix. The grinds do get clumpy after shaking but I have not noticed any detrimental effect on flavours.

Giphy - Watching Tv Kerry GIF by Gogglebox Australia

you need to use the right hand motion…

Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

I haven’t done many shots with the Blind Shaker (maybe 10), but every shot had some unevenness (ie flow gaps on the bottom of the PTF). I haven’t started inspecting pucks like I did before my WDT technique improved to a point that distribution and channeling ceased to be a concern. Now we are being told that we should throw out everything that every other professional has taught us, and just shake it up and distribution and evenness be darned? Channeling? Who cares?

Alot more study needs to be done by alot of other professionals before we start drinking this particular coolaid.

This being said, LH has stirred up an interesting debate, which may (or may not) change how we approach espresso.  And gained alot of PR and YouTube hits/$ in the process :)

  • MWJB replied to this.

    All of this reminds me of a fable about an Emperor 😁

    JHCCoffee Now we are being told that we should throw out everything that every other professional has taught us,

    Not really, most professionals with on demand grinders dose into the PF, maybe tap & tamp. I’ve never seen WDT in a cafe (though I don’t doubt it happens in a small number).

        I’ve never had espresso in a cafe – and I’ve been to many of the most highly rated in London – that is as good as the best I can pull at home. But that’s not surprising when one considers that I use rarer (and more expensive) coffees, roasted either by me or a favourite roaster to my taste, and prepared with care that takes more time than a pro-barista can spare.

        MWJB Not really, most professionals with on demand grinders dose into the PF, maybe tap & tamp. I’ve never seen WDT in a cafe (though I don’t doubt it happens in a small number).

        I think this extends to most of the non-obsessive home-coffee community too which probably makes up significant numbers.

        You’ll always get enthusiasts in any field willing to part with their cash on the (never-ending) quest for perfection and as a result there will always be some ‘innovative’ invention to relieve said enthusiasts of their money.

        La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

        Ikawa Roaster

            HarveyMushman I’m not sure that WDT tools, dosing cups & blind shakers are that much of an outlay, compared to grinders, burrs & machines.

                MWJB

                The cost to the customer is low, I just mean if someone gets traction online somewhere saying something like ‘OMG guys this $10 product literally revolutionised my espresso!’ and then 1000 people buy it. The person making the products did ok and the 1000 customers are happy until the next ‘revolutionary’ technique is discovered.

                I’m not saying WDT etc make no difference, I’m just saying people partial to buying stuff on their quest for perfection will always lap it up.

                This thread (and others like it) being the case in point

                La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

                Ikawa Roaster

                  I think the evidence is clear to see. That doing WDT or shaking does make a difference to extraction. It’s good to be sceptical but one must also be open to new ideas. It’s easy to just dismiss something as a fad.

                    Emc2

                    I have a WDT tool, it stays in the back of a drawer. I honestly couldn’t taste a difference that warranted the additional step in the process. That’s just me though, I’m sure many others disagree.

                    La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

                    Ikawa Roaster

                        MattH

                        “My refractometer says the best extractions are from three concentric circles spaced at 4mm and a triangle with at least one 47 degree angle”

                        La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

                        Ikawa Roaster

                            HarveyMushman Refractometers don’t measure better, best, worse - nor do they have opinions. Like scales, thermometers/probes, they measure more, or less of a tangible & measurable parameter.

                            Classic straw man.

                              I figured the rest of that post made it quite clear that it was tongue in cheek, but hey at least you managed still to prove me wrong. Gold star for you!

                              La Marzocco Linea Mini - Mazzer Philos

                              Ikawa Roaster

                              • MWJB replied to this.

                                I think the message is getting lost in translation. Can you get good coffee without WDT? Yes, you can. Does the shaker produce better tasting coffee and the WDT produces rubbish? Absolutely not.

                                With WDT and shaking, you get higher extractions, all other parameters being equal. What these techniques allow you to do is achieve the extractions at coarser grind settings, which means more consistent extractions. A high EY by itself means nothing. You can simply achieve that by changing the other parameters such as grinding finer. The problem is that when you do that, there’s more uneven extraction and more chances of extracting unpleasant stuff.

                                Essentially what you’re trying to achieve is consistent extractions which is where WDT/shaking helps. This is my understanding. Happy to be corrected.

                                7 days later

                                I finally watched the videos and after years of improving my wdt I think I’ve got good puck prep and the shots from bottomless pf look great.
                                Opting for a shake for 10 secs when grinds cup on the pf to mirror the magic cup and then wdt and pour seems to consistently give me 5-8 seconds longer pour.
                                Is this expected? Better more even distribution so I need to grind coarser now? Presumably as the water was slightly channeling even if not evident from watching?

                                  simonc after shaking, you should only wdt just the top of the grounds like a puck rake. The shots should run faster not slower.

                                  • Emc2 replied to this.

                                      drdre89 not in my experience. It depends how long you shake for. The longer you shake, the slower the extraction. Also, in the experiments by Lance, there was no difference in extraction times between WDT and shaking. In the latest video in which he explains how he makes espresso, he has recommended doing faster shots- this is not the consequence of shaking. It’s simply how he prefers his shots.