Hi Everyone I've really loved my original NZ over the few years I've had it and it's served by (now sold) MaraX and now Linea Micra well. I've come to realise over the last few months that as much as I try, I cannot get the same depth, brightness and general 'wow' feel to my espresso shots as a well dialled in specialist coffee shop. So, I decided to do a bit of a trial over the last month. I have had many delicious (and consistent) Red Brick espresso flat whites from Laynes in Leeds, so that's my taste benchmark. I bought some Red Brick (not my usual at home) and have been experimenting with a couple of kgs at home. I cannot get close to what I drink from Laynes. My shots are all 'fine' - balanced and perfectly drinkable, but they lack that sweetness and 'wow' taste in the mouth. I've tried different ratios, temperatures, extraction times and I'm coming to the conclusion that the NZ is the limiting factor here. So, if I'm after taking a step up from my NZ, what's the current consensus on what's next? I'd like single dosing and not a massive form factor. I'm quite happy to buy a grinder and then spend £££ on burrs for it too, if that's needed. Low retention would be a bonus. Thanks Will

> @"itguy"#p61008 So, if I’m after taking a step up from my NZ, what’s the current consensus on what’s next? I can help you pass a few minutes until the guys come and tell you "Niche Duo" :). How did you find the Micra Vs Mara X?

@"HarveyMushman"#p61018 They are using a Mythos I think…

https://youtu.be/FLfcp9KcUAE?si=BLT6Ow91MC1KCWj6

What grinder, after having (and liking) my Niche Zero Conical.

Cuprajake

Did you clock what grinders were being used in the cafe you visited? Most will be flats, for me flats generally give more flavour separation.

You can choose from a multitude of flats.

What’s your budget?

And do you swap beans alot?

dfk41

Cuprajake Did you clock what grinders were being used in the cafe you visited?

Probably Niche Duo’s

itguy

Cuprajake

Don’t really swap beans about much, tend to go through 1kg of something then try something new, so plenty of time to get things dialled in. We make approx 3-4 double espressos a day so not a big throughput.

Budget - good question, up to 1k maybe? Size is more of the issue as don’t want anything that is massive in the kitchen or dwarfs my Micra !

whinmoor85

dfk41 Probably Niche Duo’s

Laynes don’t use Niche Duo lol

Looks like Mahlkonig E65 or 80

HarveyMushman

Google images suggest either a Major or a Mythos.

Either of those or a MK E80 seems to be what 99% of the shops use these days.

So basically a big flat. But probably single dose for the home.

So as above… Niche Duo!

itguy

HarveyMushman They are using a Mythos I think…

itguy

Thanks for the replies, I need to do a bit of ’tubing looking at the Duo then. Any love for the DF83 v2 at all? I see Bella Barista have those in stock, so might go and take a look. Burr suggestions?

Cuprajake

DavecUK

Cuprajake The only thing about that video is he used the espresso burrs for filter. I know this because the beans would have been through the Niche more than twice the speed with the filter burrs and the taste would have been much better.

Of course if he was comparing for espresso burrs in each doing filter, fair enough…but he should have tested the the Niche filter burrs and rated those with that coffee as well for completeness. Then more people might choose both burrs when they buy the grinder.

Cuprajake

I haven’t watched that one, there’s an older one with the older df as well.

LMSC

itguy they lack that sweetness and ‘wow’ taste in the mouth. I’ve tried different ratios, temperatures, extraction times and I’m coming to the conclusion that the NZ is the limiting factor here.

Let’s say, you buy the Duo or something else and find, it still doesn’t match your taste benchmark from Laynes, Leeds. What’s next? :-)

What about the water situation ? Do you use what they use? Sure, they will be using filtered water.

Edit:

IMHO, one requires a like for like set up and mirrored preparation to replicate. If you find NZ is limiting, find a big or the biggest flag you can afford. It might still fall short of your benchmark.

tompoland

itguy IMHO for what you are after it is hard to beat the SSP Espresso (HU) burrs either in 83mm or 64mm format.

The Duo is an end game grinder and will accomodate the SSP burrs and you have the added bonus of the burr carriers (getting both burrs is worth is, just to get the extra carrier).

The other compentent grinder that will take SSP burrs (64mm) is the DF64V. My review of the V is floating around here somewhere.

The nice thing about both grinders is that if you decide you don’t like a particularburr set you don’t need to buy a new grinder, you just pop in a new burr set.

Cuprajake

https://bellabarista.co.uk/collections/espresso-grinders?filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=&sort_by=price-ascending

Plenty of options there, or go for the dual burr duo.

https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-duo?variant=43221821194371

Or there are a couple used grinders like the zerno for sale on the old forum but that’s 1500,

In reality most of these will give similar tastes, you will notice a step up from 64 to 83. But when you throw SSP into the mix you can Tailor your grind. 64mm SSP are alot cheap than 83mm versions

Rob1

What water are you putting in the machine?

itguy

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and comments. Water - I’m using ashbeck bottled but have in the past considered some kind of BWT setup.

I’m thinking I need to talk half a day off work and go to Bella Barista, with my Zero, and try out a few different grinders they have there as I suspect they’ll have the DF83 on display/demo as well as a 64. At least then I can do back to back taste tests myself, although I’ll need to make sure I check what burrs are fitted in each grinder too.

Pompeyexile

I am the worst person on here to even dare make a comment or suggestion but if I were in the same position, the first thing I would do is go to the place that consistantly gave me a lovely coffee - in your case Lanynes - and get as much detail as I could about what they do to produce it. Type of water, grinder and burr type and size, even the temp they are brewing at and pre-infusion details if possible, and the total extraction time and even the weight of the grinds going in.

From what I gather reading many posts on this forum, all of those are factors that can effect the coffee in the cup. Then, if after looking at those perameters it is just the grinder burrs that is the issue, at least you will know.

CoffeePhilE

It’s reading threads like this that make me glad I’ve convinced myself my taste buds aren’t good enough to tell the difference and that what I get out of the NZ is good enough. I daren’t go to BB and start trying different grinders or I just might find out my taste buds are better than I think, and then its ‘welcome rabbithole, goodbye bank balance’.

I wish itguy the very best in finding the taste he’s after, but I pray I never taste it myself, or …. :(

Damned rabbits, digging their holes everywhere. I have enough trouble with the hifi rabbithole to want to find the grinder upgrade one. :D