My other half was talking to my neighbour about the rise in electrickery and he was going on about this thing called Phantom/Vampire electricity that can cost households hundreds of pounds a year. He said he has unplugged everything in his house except the combi boiler and fridge freezer. He claimed that even a toaster left plugged in even though the wall switch is off can still draw electricity. You have to completely unplug it to stop it drawing electric.

I was very dubious and thought unless the unit has a standby option like TV’s if the power is switched off then how the chuff can it draw electricity?

My other half showed me an article from the USA which said exactly that. However, when I looked at it for the UK websites here they seemed to indicate the term ‘Phantom’ was another word for stuff on standby.

So you clever lot out there… can something like a toaster still draw electricity if not being used or do we really have to not just switch it off at the wall but completely unplug it to save energy… or is the American article wrong or has my neighbour misunderstood it?

My logic says if it isn’t on standby or have that facility or a luminated digital readout like the microwave clock etc then when it’s off it aint drawing anything.

Over to you….

    Pompeyexile

    “He claimed that even a toaster left plugged in even though the wall switch is off can still draw electricity.”

    As an electrician, this seems like nonsense, unless the toaster has an electronic component that is monitoring something, or it’s faulty. There shouldn’t be any load going to it at all, and with the switch off (which American outlets don’t have discounting RCCD sockets in bathrooms) the line/live will be disconnected from the circuit, as will the neutral in cases where there is a double pole switched socket.

    In my experience, a homes base load will be about 25% ‘phantom’ or standby power. This isn’t including wifi, thermostats etc but more like sound systems, TVs, Sky etc.

    My base load for example is about 225w, and if I turn off all the TV’s etc it drops to 190w, but we’ve only one TV, no Sky boxes, and not much else that has a standby draw.

        I’ve pinched the smart plug from the coffee machine and using it to monitor all my pond paraphanalia, a fountain, a waterfall/big filter and an air pump, they use 2Kw day, turning each one off to see what they use, come winter the fountain will be off, maybe one of the others though we have a lot of fish (probably due to the oxygen all this water sloshing about incorporates) and don’t want them dying through lack of oxygen.

          DavecUK That seems optimistic. The warranty on the product states 60% capacity after 10 years or 6MWh throughput - whichever comes first. As 6MWh over 10 years is only about 1.65 kWh per day I’d assume the throughput is the most important. If you are using the stored energy daily you would likely see reduction to around 60% capacity in a couple of years. I’m not sold on the idea that these are viable for cash savings over lifetime - and that is using the manufacturers own data.

            Pompeyexile So you clever lot out there… can something like a toaster still draw electricity if not being used or do we really have to not just switch it off at the wall but completely unplug it to save energy… or is the American article wrong or has my neighbour misunderstood it?

            as @Del_UK Not a dumb toaster no, and under new regulations items on standby are not meant to be drawing more than 1 watt. It was a law change possibly from 8-10 years ago.

            Del_UK My base load for example is about 225w, and if I turn off all the TV’s etc it drops to 190w, but we’ve only one TV, no Sky boxes, and not much else that has a standby draw.

            I have a huge problem with a baseload I have struggled to identify…if I turn everything off, my phantom baseload is still around 128W…I have tracked it down to 3 things I think may be causing it.

            1. Two quartz aqualisa shower pumps, at least 16 years old
            2. Possibly a stuart turner shower pump 9 years old
            3. My inverter aircon/heater unit around 10 years old.

            These are the only items I can’t easily turn off or unplug. The Aqualisas want to run from time to time as if on a maintenance schedule, they always have. The stuart turner will run very occasionally when the pressure in the pressure cylinder drops and I am sure the aircon unit is always up to something (thinking)

            SurreyAlan waterfall/big filter and an air pump, they use 2Kw day, turning each one off to see what they use, come winter the fountain will be off, maybe one of the others though we have a lot of fish (probably due to the oxygen all this water sloshing about incorporates) and don’t want them dying through lack of oxygen.

            I managed to get my pond in balance and although not 100% clear, stays pretty clear all year round and my fish don’t die. I used to run the waterfall (fed by the pressurised filter) 24×7. This was proving expensive even with an efficient hi flow 100W pump. Some months ago I purchased an aerator (to bring up lower level water for aeration). This uses very little power and I now power the pump for 5 hours per day. The water is possibly better oxygenated than before and the bacteria in the filter don’t dry out and die.

            and because the airstones will arrive broken, buy this as well

            It’s very low consumption 12W and 4 airstones, rather than Y connectors on 2 airstones….which I hope will help the membranes last longer…it certainly gives more air. Hopedully I won’t need to run the pump much at all over the winter.

            P.S. I no longer us UV, haven’t for many years…which saves another 35W

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                  I hadn’t thought about 4 airstones instead of 2 on Y connectors, I do recall reading that the aerator was the best for raising oxygen levels. The waterfall and fountain are very good at stopping the pond freezing when it gets very cold.

                    Anything that breaks the surface with give gas exchange.

                    Have you thought of winter plants to add oxygen to the water?

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    This base load thing, are you guys all on smart meter?

                    My meter is smart I think, but not connected to anything

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      My motto is No More Plants, my wife’s is you can never have enough plants, guess who wins. The energy bill is insignificant compared to the monthly plant bill.

                      SurreyAlan The waterfall and fountain are very good at stopping the pond freezing when it gets very cold.

                      I read that the airstones will also do that?

                      Cuprajake This base load thing, are you guys all on smart meter?

                      My meter is smart I think, but not connected to anything

                      My meter has been dumb for 11 out of the 12 years or so it has been fitted. I had it fitted by Ovo, it worked for a year and once I changed suppliers, never worked again. The energy monitor that came with it stopped working for everything except units and a few other things, because the programmers were too stupid to allow me to program my current gas and electric unit rate into it myself. It does know how many units I’m using though and still connects wirelessly to the now dumb meter.

                      They were also too fecking stupid to program the energy monitor to show the current meter readings for gas and electric. I can only assume it was programmed by 5 year olds. So I still have to go down, open the cupboards, get on my hands and knees, press 9 and use a bit of paper to write down the readings for each meter. Fecking wankahs

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                          Basically, everything which lacks a traditional on/off switch draws a little bit of power (sometimes very little, but over multiple appliances, this adds up).

                          In my case, I can lower my power usage to 1 kWh/day when I’m away for some time but not much below due things such as

                          • the Freezer (I can switch off the fridge separately which I do when on holidays)
                          • the house ventilation system (required to reduce moisture in a modern house
                          • the remote receiver for my blinds/velux windows shutters, and all the smart switches/remotes/light bulbs which are connected to the mains
                          • all the lights for which the switch is located after the wall wart/power transformer and which can’t easily be unplugged (kitchen counter lights for instance)
                          • the gas boiler (even when no gas is used, it monitors temperature to prevent the water from freezing), and electric heaters monitoring temperature for the same reason
                          • the oven clock (which I could switch off, but would then need to reprogramme)
                          • the power usage monitoring system (which tells me I’m not using any power!)

                          Some appliances (such as my Miele washing machine) also lack a true on/off switch for safety reason… there is a small power supply which triggers a relay when the On/off button is pushed… an Idling Osmio system will also draw a bit of power, as will a desktop computer or monitor (unless one toggles the rear physical switches..

                            Yesterday I went around and checked comsumption of devices, such as… DVD/HDD player… 8W, for being on standby, doing nothing. So that was dully unplugged.

                            My fridge and freezer are both rated at 90W each, so they are pretty good, I think.

                              During the last few weeks, we switch off all standby - Micro wave, PCs, TV, etc in the night and if we are going off for the day.

                              We would love to switch off the modem and router switches though in the night. But, it is connecting our phones, Hive, etc.

                              We will check if we can connect the Hive direct to the Virgin router, keep that on and switch off the Cisco switch power in the night. We will lose the wifi, which is manageable.

                                LMSC - hmmm…. It’s only worth switching things off if they are wasteful or useless.

                                Before you go on turning routers and switches off, I’d find how much power they are using first. Convenience has a price in modern society.

                                I give you an example: I have a sound bar that’s always on, on standby. We use it occasionally But it’s not even worth the while turning it off as it uses like 0.2W - 89p per year for being on standby.

                                My example of the DVD player was something I totally overlooked: not only I don’t use it, ever, as most things are available on subscription services these days - it’s also old and clunky. One of those things it’s under the TV and I never thought about unplugging it!

                                    I’m just wondering how large the council tax rise will be, as we pay to keep all those offices, library’s, and other council funded places warm and electrified with their uncapped bills. If people think a pub with a 64K electric bill is a lot, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

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                                    MediumRoastSteam We turn off power where possible. Turning off the Routers and Network switches is an extreme measure.

                                    The router uses 40 W active and Switch 45W active.

                                    We also know the switch has an active power management as it switches off unused ports. So, the switch’s active power consumption could be less.

                                      Gagaryn Just as a quick update, I worked out that I can start it off the smart plug, as long as I start the cycle (close door and wait for initial beep) before turning off power. Problem was that I forgot to enable the schedule, set it up and left it switched off 🤣. I ended up turning it on at 3:30 as woke up thinking I heard my 5 month old. Good to know it works so will be doing that going forward as every little helps.

                                          Alexvs turning it on at 3:30 as woke up thinking I heard my 5 month old

                                          For a few months, that’s going to be even cheaper than a smart plug… 😉