Energy Prices
LMSC Do you think this is worth it? Air Heat pump is probably cheaper than ground-source heat pump. I thought this still fall short by some margin relying on the gas. Furthermore, one needs to either instal a solar panel or draw electricity from the provider. In our case, the electricity consumes a half of our utility bills.
It depends on the situation I guess vs a gas boiler. I always hear a heat pump with a house insulated as well as your average fridge is cheap to run, but a gas boiler in that same house would be cheaper to run. That a heat pump is up to 4 times more efficient than a gas boiler…though the don’t mention that gas is up to 4 times cheaper. The SCOP figures that are almost 3.8 or 4, but they don’t mention those are only reached with flow temps of 40C.
My situation is this. gas central heating, mostly microbore pipes and rads that are not overly large because they don’t need to be. Putting a heat pump in my house would involve a new water tank, special hot water auxilliary heat pump buffer tanks, replacement of all rads and most of the pipework, involving floors up and external pipework on walls, plus a real mess. Cost of all this, well over £16,000, probably nearer £18,000 (after the grant), because they are effectively putting in a whole new wet system.
I’m not going to pay that to be cold…and run a HP system which you shouldn’t actually turn off, because if the house gets too cold, it takes 5 hours to warm up again. In winter the COP will be horrendous.
So enter the air to air multisplit (using the right refrigerants, currently R32, it would be better still using R717 first used in 1920 ish, but they don’t do that). The COP can be over 5 and the SCOP higher than an air to water system.
The advantage is I only have to have a single cassette unit in the rooms at the junction of the wall meets the ceiling and small holes for the refrigerant pipes. I can leave my radiators or have them removed. Each room is only heated when I need to use it, and the system can be on timers for frost or damp protection. Heating is hot air and essentially warms a room within 10 minutes of switching on an individual unit. The COP is high because it only puts out air at a max of 28 or 30C and you would usually have it set to 22C… You only heat the rooms you need to heat when you need to and they can all be at different temperatures.
It also works as an air conditioning unit as well for cooling individual rooms as required during hot weather, and even has a dry function to remove condensation/humidity if that is required.
I think the cost of installation would be considerably cheaper than an air to water system, even though there are no grants for air to air systems. I also believe it would be considerable cheaper to run than a heat pump. it is my preferred option if they ban gas boilers.
==========================
For people wanting to turn off their internet routers at night…it can play havoc with certain types of broadband, gfast etc,, causing the system to think it needs to fall back to lower speeds to maintain your connection at a good service level.
- Edited
DavecUK My situation is this. gas central heating, mostly microbore pipes and rads that are not overly large because they don’t need to be. Putting a heat pump in my house would involve a new water tank, special hot water auxilliary heat pump buffer tanks, replacement of all rads and most of the pipework, involving floors up and external pipework on walls, plus a real mess. Cost of all this, well over £16,000, probably nearer £18,000 (after the grant), because they are effectively putting in a whole new wet system.
This is what a certified gas enginner-cum-plumber, who came to fix some water leak in the house advised us. He told us we need to spend
- £7.5K for the mega flow - you may as well if you are opening the floor. This cost was before Covid.
- All new pipe works and radiators.
- Air source heat pump + solar panels
- New boilers
- New first floor floor boards
- He also suggested, if doing all these, spend some more and replace all electrical cables and go full blown smart home leveraging the exposed floors.
I would rather repay my mortgage than spending money on all these.
DavecUK For people wanting to turn off their internet routers at night…it can play havoc with certain types of broadband, gfast etc,, causing the system to think it needs to fall back to lower speeds to maintain your connection at a good service level.
!(
- Edited
LMSC £7.5K for the mega flow - you may as well if you are opening the floor. This cost was before Covid.
All new pipe works and radiators.
Can’t have a megaflow, I have 3 thermostatically controlled pumped showers….which would be thousands down the drain. I am hoping the fruitcake idea of net zero and banning gas boilers gets dumped…madness.
- Edited
Cuprajake I watched it despite disliking James O’Tvvat immensely. Fortunately Martin didn’t give him a chance to speak.
I was just thinking about commercial energy prices, the amount that pub has been quoted, It might actually be cheaper to get a big commercial quiet run generator and power from that…. Those ones that look like half a caravan on a towed trailer. Make hardly any noise.
Diesel usage is astronomical for large generators. The big commercial ones use around 100 litres per hour.
- Edited
Well, having spent a few days thinking abound it, yesterday I ordered one of these
https://burley.co.uk/product/ambience-4121/
The big advantages are:
We have no flue so covers that
Instant heat if we have power cuts
100% burn efficiency
We have a fixed rate of 4.38 on gas so even running on full which is unlikely, the cost is 15.3p per hour @3.5 kw output. We have 3 radiators in the room we sit in. We can turn them down to 1, turn the heating off during the day on 4 of the other 5 rads and at night to take the chill off the part of the house we are going to sleep in put the heating on as needed. That sounds a bit vague but until it is fitted we will not actually know. Once fitted I will cover costs etc
dfk41 We will need photos and videos of it working, or it didn’t happen….you can show off the remote control as well.
£700M nuclear plant commitment in Suffolk days before stepping down. He could have done that earlier!
A care home company who usual bill for it’s homes is 90k have been quoted 1mil
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake A care home company who usual bill for it’s homes is 90k have been quoted 1mil
That’s ridiculous!!
- Edited
I’m no fan of Tony Blair, but he warned about this in 2006/7. he foresaw this type of crisis and wanted Nuclear to become 40% of the UK energy mix, together with renewables.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-britain-nuclear-idUSL1573861220070215
The judge is now Sir Jeremy, we are busy blaming the current government, when actually we need to look hard at the hidden forces that worked to deny us Nuclear power. We wouldn’t have had this problem had the courts not decided how our country should be run. Later various groups many funded by fossil fuel companies and Nick Clegg ensured we wouldn’t have much nuclear, if any.
……hence todays mess
I often hear the green lobby trotting out fusion power…trust me it won’t be in our lifetimes, or our kids lifetimes, if ever!
P.S. Fossil fuel funds green energy and anti nuclear, because they know green energy absolutely ensures we have to continue using fossil fuels whilst twisting things to pretend we’re net zero.
- Edited
I just had one positive thought about winter coming and energy prices. We’re all probably a bit wary of running our coffee machines in the summer, and they only make the house warmer which we don’t want, all that energy is effectively wasted. Of course in winter we want the house to be warmer so leaving our coffee machine on all day is not the problem it is in summer, all that heat energy transfers back into the house where it’s actually wanted.
Something positive to think about him otherwise horrible energy situation.
That’s the good thing about the cold days, the efficiency of many appliances becomes less relevant (unless the produce things like hot water which goes down the drain while it’s above freezing)
- Edited
£170 B rescue plan to freeze energy prices cap is being prepared! Hmm…costing, credibility and the how aspects are to be worked out. The fiscal deficit / open-market operations is the obvious route.
With a promise to roll back the NI hikes, I am thinking if a long-dated bond offering to the rich businesses, the fund managers and the public is an attractive option. 🤔
I’m wondering what this means for my fixed-rate, should I actually bin it and go back to the price cap? Will they let us down, u turn in three months and bung up the prices?