We all know what's going to happen, and sooner rather than later. I'm expecting energy prices are going to increase across the board by around 50% on gas and electricity. My thoughts then turned to the espresso machine…probably uses more power when it's cold, perhaps as much as 100W per hour..I know some people have cited massive increases in their bills when they have an espresso machine on all day…so I'm preparing, I would imagine the machine will lose only half the energy this way? The underneath towel is to add the extra insulation under the group and keep the top towel wrap in place. I'm already turning green! [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/sPQzAA6.png]

@"DavecUK"#p4730 Classic Dave’s solution to the problem! 😂😂 I continue to switch the machine off after making coffee. I don’t want the machine to run from 6 am to 9 pm. 😊 Am making a separate thread for green!

me personally, pureplanet went bump on me giving me a massive increase at home, was tied till april 2022 at work my gas and elec have no cap, since march 2021 when i cam out of contract ive seen my monthly elec bill go from £200 to £430 per month, these are out of contract rates atm, its getting crazy

Well, after about 20 minutes of non-use my Sage turns itself off. Plus as it takes only about 6 minutes to get up to temp it shouldn't use too much. After a really good two year fixed deal came to an end in December, we've just gone on to Octopus Go tariff where between 12:30 and 4:30 am the charge is 5p kWh. No good for the coffee machine admittadly unless I'm having a spot of insomnia, but we put our washing machine on for then as that eats electric and I charge my EV then too.

Our tariff is fixed until Aug 23. So, Am good. But, our costs did go up by £50 a month to about £162 pm. Thank God, I went fixed as some one advised flexible. 😊

We changed to Octopus when we were down south, we have always been on a fixed tariff and our bills were around £120 month. We moved up North to Yorkshire and bought a new build our bills are £80 month at most. We renewed to a fixed tariff again in September after a lot of deliberation thinking prices had been stable for some time, so glad we did. Hopefully when it all settles down we can get another fixed rate not sure it will be the same though. All our family are with Octopus they have been really good.

@"LMSC"#p4731 you can because it only takes 15m to warm up, so it's actually worth switching it off if your not going to use it…in fact, even a low power mode would be worthwhile on the Evo, might see if something can be programmed into the motherboards, to actually drop the group temp after a configurable number of minutes of non use. e.g. drop by n C, after n minutes, with brew boiler switching off after n minutes. This is because brew boiler only takes 3 minutes to warm up. In this way a machine could drop into economy (if you enable it) after say 15 minutes and be warmed up again by touching the panel. As soon as the group hits the preset temp, you will be ready to go, probably about 3 or 4 minutes….depending on how low you turn the group down. The energy saving would actually be quite large!

@"DavecUK"#p4762 I am sure you will come up with a solution as an enhancement in the future release. If it can be programmed like a PC - Hibernate, Sleep, Restart and Shut Down! 😬 We mostly make 5 -6 cups in total 2 in the morning, 1 at noon, 1 in the afternoon and 2 in the evening ! Perhaps, decaf in the night.

@"Cuprajake"#p4732 I was with simplicity energy, fortunately they went bust a few months before the energy crisis and I went onto the supplier of last resort British Gas, something called Simplicity Promis until April 2022 which felt like being rodgered up the rear end, but as it turned out was a blessing in disguise. 3p per unit for gas and 17.9 for leccy

I am with octopus on their flexible rate since my fixed rate with them ended at the beginning of December. I am not sure how much I am paying monthly ( was previously £59) as I have just had smart meters fitted and the readings haven’t settled into any pattern but watching the monitor thingy add up the electric units is a bit of a sharp intake of breath whenever the electric shower is used. To make matters worse, my boomerang child has just boomeranged back home to live again and takes two showers a day and wears clothes once before throwing them in the wash. I have been dithering over fixing the rate before April but just cannot commit myself to a tariff that doubles the price of my gas for the next three months even though I know things are going to get very much worse. I switch my machine and grinder off at the wall as soon as I am done.

> @"4W5"#p4814 I am with octopus on their flexible rate since my fixed rate with them ended at the beginning of December. I am not sure how much I am paying monthly ( was previously £59) as I have just had smart meters fitted and the readings haven’t settled into any pattern you must absolutely know the rate per kW hour and standing charge so you can make apples for apples comparisons. They rely on obfuscating these numbers.

Energy Prices

Del_UK

I’d like to know who they surveyed for this average/typical household usage figure of 2900kw for electricity.

It works out at less than 8kw a day which is very low for a family let a lone, in my case, 2 adults.

Rough estimates;
Kettle, boiled 6 times for 3 mins, about 0.5kw
Oven/cooking for 30 mins, 0.5 - 1kw
Background usage (tv’s, wifi, smart stuff, fridges, gas heating/pumps) @200-300w, 4-6kw ish, can vary vastly for some, mine is about 4.5kw a day
Washing machine, if new, 0.5-0.7kw, if old, 1-1.5+kw on a standard/eco cycle.
Dishwasher, 0.5-1+kw
Lighting, not much if you’ve new LEDs. If not, 0.3-0.6kw during winter
Espresso, don’t think about it, just enjoy it.

It’s going to be tough for some people to keep it low over the winter, especially if they have ANY electrical heating

DavecUK

Del_UK It’s why they should make it so people can compare applies with apples. kW and standing charge are things we can directly compare. An average household….no.

For all I know their average household could be based on a family with 2 kids in a 3 bedroom flat, but of course it’s done this way to deliberately mislead. OFGEM was never fit for purpose. When I wasn’t billed for over 5 years, had no idea how much I owed, wasn’t told even how much per unit I was paying (so I couldn’t work it out) by Npower and of course couldn’t leave because I couldn’t settle…OFGEM and the energy Ombudsman did nothing.

Eventually I got a final bill, for almost £6K and given 2 weeks to pay it pending disconnection!! I was expected to magic this money out of my arse.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK yeah, I don’t understand what’s the point of quoting the price cap is “X” for an average house and then that’s magically translated to price per KWh for electricity and for gas. Utter obscure voodoo. Why not make it straight forward?

Interestingly enough, we are a family of 3 on a three bed house. We spent 3,800KWh in electrics and 12,100kwh in gas last year. We do have a couple of electric heaters, but this winter they won’t be turned on very often I tell you that!

Gagaryn

Electricity is confusing to the vast majority of people which is why the average cost thing is used. I also find it annoying because I know my annual usage, I know current draw of appliances etc. Tell me unit cost and I can work it out cost of usage for myself.

But many people get confused. See the two posts above this referring to kW but meaning kWh. I’m sure both know the difference but still got confused by terminology. The average person won’t know the difference and many aren’t inclined to learn. It’s those people that the average annual cost descriptor is meant to help.

Never underestimate the capacity for people to misunderstand - plenty still think that what they are being told is that annual fuel bills for all are capped at £2.5k. It’s easy to say that it could be explained more clearly but the evidence exists for me to believe that matter how well explained this is many people all still misunderstand. I’d still like to see the proposed unit costs though.

Del_UK

Gagaryn

Guilty as charged! I’m better than that, I’m blaming the callout I received at 1450 on a Friday, 10 minutes before I’d usually finish!

My usage is much higher than the average; 3700kWh in 12 months (Sep 2021-Aug 2022) for electric and 7200kWh for the same time with gas. Gas usage is low because we have a wood burner which does the bulk of the heating in the evenings and our hot water use is low, only ever showering although this will sometimes be twice a day for 2 people.

Our problems are we both get through a lot of training kit with running 6 times a week, and that needs to be washed regularly unless we want it to become a smelly problem. Also, because of all the running we eat a lot! The oven and hob are usually required for most meals and they take 30+ minutes. I’m hoping the PV will help but we are also lucky with the cheap tariff until September 2024.

I’m sure the unit/average/standing charge cost confusion is to baffle customers. Supermarkets do it with produce too. If you want to compare prices of tea bags, some will be shown on the label per bag, others per 100g, others per KG. It seems “accept it and move on” is the only way of staying sane…

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam Particularly when one is looking at four distinct components that make up the total… My electricity consumption is about average, but we have a large, old house and spend a lot more on heating, even though winter temperatures are kept low (18 - 20 °C). The impact of standing charges increases is small on my gas bill, but it can be quite considerable on my electricity cost (and so on).

Political obfuscation. When there was the will to make things clearer (e.g. the obligation to quote APR/AER rates), people quickly learned what to compare… they’d do the same if provided unit rates and daily standing charges caps rather than a meaningless “average bill”.

MediumRoastSteam

MediumRoastSteam we are a family of 3 on a three bed house. We spent 3,800KWh in electrics and 12,100kwh in gas last year.

Our central heating is set at 21C all day. I never turn it off during the warmer months. I just let the thermostat do its job. It comes on at 7am, and it goes off at 22:30. When it comes on, I know autumn has started. Same for the hot water.

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK if it will go that low

PID range 80 - 130 for all 3… so no go, unless I start fiddling around with the firmware (which may be encrypted in some way) 😁

It would be interesting to see what the empirical (as opposed to Stefan-Boltzmann theoretical) law is at “coffee making” temperatures. Is the ~square valid through the 85 - 95 °C range, as far as you know.

dfk41

We have a two bed roomed bungalow. The boiler was replaced 15 months ago. It is well insulated. This year to date is 2281.02 kWh and 9521.59 for gas. Hard to see how we could stay within the figures published yesterday really. Am on a very good fix till next September but I too await with interest the actual cost figures

DavecUK

My electric usage is 2721kW per year, not count the EV usage. It’s not possible for me to lower it…I suppose I could buy a more energy efficient fridge freezer for £800 which would save 200kW per annum at best (£60) per year. If it retained it’s brand new efficiency, it would not save me money but pay for itself in 15 years, after which I would start saving money ..if it retains, as new efficiency.

My gas usage for heating and HW is around 12000kW to be cold withe the heating on 3.5 hours per day Nov to mid March.

I have a 5 / 6 bed house.

LMSC

DavecUK That’s very economical for the size of the property. Ours’ is also similar sized. Last year (2020-21) readings were 4508 for electricity and 21275 for gas. Since Aug 2021, we are averaging 360 kWh for electricity and the gas is all over the place.

DavecUK

LMSC My property is well insulated and it’s usually cold in winter with that level of heat.

Last year it was 9C inside and 13C outside, neighbors thought I was mad…but I needed to warm the house up 🤣 The house always lags any external temperature changes.

Inspector

And I was thinking we use a lot,

Gas= 13000kwh

Electric= 2000kwh

1897 built 4 bed mid terraced 2 adults and a toddler. Thermostat set to 21 all day/night.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Inspector How new are the windows and has the loft been done recently/ is it converted? Age is one thing but mid-terrace has decent advantages.

We live in a drafty 1930s 3bed semi that needs new windows (uPVC but 20yrs old) and work done to the roof (200mm insulation though).

YTD usage according to Octopus = E-2598.79kWh G-9742.07kWh

Two adults, two young children. We overuse the tumble dryer, but other than that try to limit use where we can.

Inspector

PortafilterProcrastinator

Loft been converted few years back, front of house has triple glazed windows, garden side has all double glazed windows. But no insulation on walls whatsoever.

Cuprajake

figures coming out while better than worse, it means the average house will still be paying double what they were last year, when you think petrol has had a 40% increase, as well as every other bill in the house, were still goosed

DavecUK

Cuprajake Mortgages, energy, food, transport. It’s all gone up horrifically….. Ultimately a knock on effect of energy and fuel prices.

What I felt was particularly annoying that with the future price rises planned for energy, it was going to be cheaper using a petrol generator and heating with paraffin.

Plus all the shite advice about using LED bulbs…does anyone not use them?

Typed in my house with 140W of phantom draw

dfk41

Fuel seems to be starting to come down, once there is found a way to stop the profiteering on the forecourt retailers. Mortgages, despite protestations are not expensive, if you can remember the days when they really were. What has happened is the total irresponsibility of the millenials who despite being told, had no experience of life when interest rates were high and so could not actually imagine the effects of their reckless spending and borrowing habits fuelled by very low interest rates

DavecUK

dfk41 That’s very true about mortgages, when I was younger we thought an interest rate of 5 or 6% was a bargain. The problem now is that borrowers have significantly overextended themselves in relation to salary.

The one slight benefit to inflation, mortgages become much easier to pay over the long term. We always used to say, after 5 years it will be a much smaller proportion of your total salary. No inflation means it never gets easier to pay.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 irresponsibility of the millenials who despite being told, had no experience of life when interest rates were high and so could not actually imagine the effects of their reckless spending and borrowing habits fuelled by very low interest rates

This is true - and as you said correctly, it was what they know/knew: cheap credit, low interest rates, low unemployment etc.

Equally, they can also complain about what where those people thinking in the past…. Burning fuel like no tomorrow, making advances in medicine, in general standard of living, having a final salary pension and now we are living to an old age which was totally unexpected back when those things were in place. Where will this money come from? (You don’t need to tell me, I know - I’ll be paying for it). Although the generation before me (baby boomers) have it all, a comfortable retirement, property, I most likely will be working until the day I drop dead to pay for those, now, in hindsight, mistakes. But that was not known then. And I tell you something, I feel very sorry for my son’s generation who would potentially not even dream of the things even my generation had for granted.

I’m not navigating a dig at you particularly. I just think it’s unfair to shift the blame and think that generation <insert name here> did all the good work and the subsequent generation did all wrong. After all, the future generation will have to deal with what’s set out for them… with policies and mistakes made by he current one.

I lived my childhood through astronomical interest rates and hyper inflation. I know it too well.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam I don’t think you can blame any single generation for the mess that country is now in. It was a combination of factors, the various different governments we had over the last 40 years always thought of short termism, people themselves wanted easy attractive messages and really didn’t cut their suit according to their cloth. This is true of all the generations they all got themselves into different forms of trouble, and it was basically greed. I like it, I want it, I’m going to have it. People don’t think about their retirement, they don’t think about saving money, credit has been too easy for far too long. Yes there’s talk about my generation baby boomers having had all the luck but when I started work there were millions of unemployed people, interest rates were running absolutely riot, and the country was not in a great state. But I was brought up to spend what you’d saved and not spend what you didn’t have except if it was for a house. If I wanted a car I didn’t go and get a loan i bought what I could afford with the money I had in the bank at the time. When I was 25 or 28 the thought of a new car never entered my mind my cars were like £800. My furniture was taken from the local tip and cleaned up I didn’t have carpets for years because I couldn’t afford them I didn’t have a new kitchen, I had what someone else was throwing out when they replaced their kitchen. For the first 8 years of living in my flat I had a lodger, but nowadays people wouldn’t think of doing that they wouldn’t expect to do that.

Easy credit has been the scourge that got many people into trouble.

dfk41

DavecUK Easy credit has been the scourge that got many people into trouble.

That is really the point I was making, although perhaps not very clearly. The youth of the fifties wore cardigans (like their dads), went to the pub for half a bitter with him before returning to a home cooked meal. Then the 60’s came with hippies, peace, love, rock and roll and hamburgers and society has degraded ever since

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