JonWoo187 What you seem to forget, is that the vast majority of stuff on forums and this forum, is opinion. The thing about opinions is, we can all have one and we can all be right. You cannot dismiss your opinion on flat versus conical in the generic way that you have. Personally, I also prefer the profile a good conical grinder gives you. My Niche Zero uses Mazzer Kony burrs and I think their reputation is unquestioned now. I also have a Solo T64 grinder that came with SSP burrs. I get some good results without spoonfulls of placebo but I still prefer the conical taste. Can I conclude anything from that or maybe the question ought to be, can you ?
Brian Quan's Kafatek video series
JonWoo187
It’s the opposite for me - I find conicals boring compared to flat burrs. When I shifted from 68mm compak k10 conical to ssp mp and ssp cast LS burrs in df64 grinders with light roast beans, it was a. Sea change with flavour nuances I couldn’t taste in the former popping out for the first time. My k10 has been sitting virtually unused for all the time I have had the df64. And now that I have the p100, the df64 next to it is unused !
As dfk41 said however, one man’s taste is another man’s poison. So you may love conicals but someone else may like flats and it’s All good as the world is big enough for both types of coffee enthusiasts.
Flat vs conical is a bit like arguing which end of the egg is best to open.
dfk41 Not forgetting anything as IMBHO pretty much everything in life IS subjective. Some tend to go on and on about things being objective as in claimed ‘scientifically supported fact’ and I call B.S. on that as well.
Point I gladly make is if people put as much thought into the coffees they choose to use they can tailor that to find what they want batch-to-batch instead of spending a buttload of money on burr/grinder swaps. It’s mind blowing how green selection/roast development plays by far the largest part in the equation that equipment chasing will never touch.
Systemic Agree, same applies to brand performance/quality. Like the constant mention from some on forums that La Marzocrappo is the ultimate all others should be compared to, when I found them to be barely tolerable in a commercial use setting.
JonWoo187 It’s mind blowing how green selection/roast development plays by far the largest part in the equation
Over the last few years, there have been major strides in this area. Take naturals for example - SCAA used to regard natural processing as flawed with taint. Modern processing methods have tamed the heavy boozy fermented notes making natural processing, for me, far more enjoyable.
Years back, I had the opportunity to test out a GS3 manual. Trying to control the pressure with the manual paddle was impossible let alone replicable. I put some of my failure down to my not having any prior experience but discounted this watching the GS3’s owner have little more success than me. My conclusion - what was the point of the machine having a manual pressure profiling paddle if it didn’t work?
chlorox The K10 was the finest grinder I have ever had, if you could swallow the retention issue. I often consider buying one again, but am I being nostalgic? I then had the E10 and taste wise, it was not in the same field
Systemic I’ve never had any real respect for the SCAA and their retarded ‘standards’… For many yrs I’ve strongly preferred naturals over any other process method for that extreme ‘funkiness’ that just can’t be matched for my taste/texture preference.
dfk41
The HB forum proclaimed the k10 as one of the so called titan grinders at the time so I bought two units for home and the office, and they served me well for more than 10 years. Apart from getting jammed with beans a few times and stalling as a result, it served me well and for the dark roasts i used exclusively at the time, they were great. I only found them lacking for flavour note differentiation and separation when I started gravitating more and more to lighter and lighter roasts.
chlorox If your office is less than 10 miles from NE23 I will buy one from you…….LOL
2 months later
Theres only one answer to that. The pointy end 🤪
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
You miss the point again!
This is a hobby, to me at least.
I love the design and engineering ot certain products as much as drinking the coffee!
I just recently purchased kafatek flat max 2
Because the coffee it will produce is 5 x better than the niche Duo, every shot. NO
Because it will be 3 x better than the Mazzer Philos then. NO
Ok, must be because its twice as good as the Weber Key. Also, NO.
So as i have all the above it seems like a total waste if money!
Some of us purchase certain equipment to evaluate and enjoy its design .
How much of the price of a Kafatek is profit, labor, machining costs and design plus contribution to the ongoing “project”. I can’t put a figure on it, but id say, quite a lot.
Is that a hidden fact or did someone think the motor was worth 2k alone as its made in japan?! Doubt it.
Does it make better coffee than my Key or HG-1 prime ….
On a tuesday and saturday, yes depending what meal i had the night befor!!
It boils down to what Better actually is.
So far im thinking it will be a long term purchase. Love the design and over the top engineering but that is one reason i purchased it.
Did i expect the coffee to taste totally different to any of my other grinders. Obviously not.
Does the coffee taste different to the Key. Yes it definately does. But which i actually prefer depends what day and mood etc
Might even try to purchase a mr Puff, cap and wdt tool just to make it complete and to see if its better than the piece of crap Craig decided to sell with it. Should have looked in the box that “has all the original accessories in it”. Should have remembered that phrase, trust noone!
Im not sure how popular these are on here.
I am sure anyone they appeal to will enjoy tham for what they are.
Would i say “ to get great coffee you need to ditch your philos, key, zero etc and buy one if these or you will never taste great coffee” . Most definately not.
Has anyone regretted purchasing.
Should i sell it and get the blind burr 2025 model 🤪
🤞🏼 Hoping for an answer along the lines of, the blind burrs are great but possibly not worth actually upgrading to (please!).
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
Would you believe I’ve only run a handful of shots through my Max as I’ve been preoccupied with other matters not least of which is taking on the secretary of state for work and pensions I kid you not.
Am hoping to get some time to be able to get to grips with the Max and see if it performs as well for pour over as it does, so far, with espresso. It’s a lot quieter than the EK mercifully. Our granddaughter who regularly watches Peppa Pig on my Mac workstation which is a few feet from the EK complains each time I switch it on. One thing I immediately noticed is the extractions through the naked portafilter and a joy to behold. With the EK, there were always some bare spots in the basket no matter how careful I prepped. I’ve given up using a metal filter disk on the puck as I think it’s redundant.
It’s clear the Max makes better espresso than the EK - I will get round to doing some extraction yield tests just for fun. The Max produces more body in longer extraction ratios than the EK which is a big plus. That’s probably down to the blind burrs. Only joking.
4 days later
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
Some interesting sneak peek shots on IG of something new they are making.
Your kafatek grinder seems rather close to the edge of the counter top there ! Apart from that, congrats on buying what is reputed to be one of the top level pieces of kit you can get as an expresso grinder…
chlorox Dunno as Kafatek grinders look to be a bit on the slower side, so I can’t associate them with eXpresso nirvana…