Hello, forum, my first post here. So here is my problem (the 3rd in almost a month since I had the MaraX) my group thermometer reads too hot temperatures with quite a bit of variation and after some digging, I have found the problem, as per Mauro's video () my MaraX V2 has been in HX mode only for a few days now. I tried both 0 and 1 modes with different temperature switch positions, after warm-up, and the temperature light is always on, indicating that the HX mode is active. I have also spoken with other MaraX owners and their light starts flashing when changing the temperature switch position indicating Coffee Priority Mode active. I have checked the wires and they look good, connected as they are in Mauro's video. Any idea why this may happen and how to fix it? Thanks

@"RobertRo101"#p7104 - I saw your post yesterday on CFUK. I was going to reply but it’s very hard to comment on what you describe without a video of your own. Please upload a video to YouTube and paste the link here. Try to demonstrate everything you describe, so it gives us a better idea of what’s going on. Don’t worry about it economising on time. We’ll watch it. 👍😊

Video with what? With the steps I take to do the extraction or what do you mean? If you mean the steps in Mauro's video for checking X mode, I can do that, but they are just the same as his and my temperature light always stays on, so not much to record there:)

OK - I was thinking more of a recording which shows what's happening to the machine when you switch between modes, etc - showing pressure gauge, lights - so other owners can *easily* check theirs and compare. If you firmly believe it's not working as intended… have you contacted the retailer?

Ok, will do it and post it here. I actually spoke with another owner of marax and when he changes temperature settings in coffee priority mode, the temperature light starts flashing, like in Mauro's video, meaning he is in coffee mode. Again, this problem of mine only happened in the past few days, it was perfectly normal until now. My retailer said that if it is necessary, they will get back to me, so... yeah:)

> @"RobertRo101"#p7158 this problem of mine only happened in the past few days, it was perfectly normal until now. > My retailer said that if it is necessary, they will get back to me, so… yeah:) Check that a wire is not defective from the little switch on the right (HX/Brew mode) to the control box, or at the back of the switch….you will need to remove the case.

I already checked it, both of them, the black and the red one, they are in the same position as in Mauro's video and are connected, I actually disconnected them and connected them again just to be sure there is contact. Here is my video, English is not my first language and I hope I could make myself clear: https://youtu.be/99jBEL0aF3A (maybe wait a few minutes to get to HD quality)

@"RobertRo101"#p7169 - That video is excellent. I think it is a lot better for someone to visualise what's going on. So, if I understand correctly, it's almost as if the Brew/HX priority mode button is completely dead, does nothing, and it's stuck in HX mode, right? I didn't realise that it wasn't the case until recently. I don't understand the machine well as I don't have one, but, it does seem it has developed a fault. I would check for disconnected wires on the switch and control box - but that was already suggested and you seem to have done it anyway. Personally, I'd contact my retailer to say that the machine is not working as expected and let them deal with the problem.

Thanks. I was hoping I could maybe find a fix that I could do myself, I also posted the initial post on reddit and there is another person that has this problem but did not know how to check the coffee priority mode because he did not know about Mauro's video. The problem I have with the retailer is that their service is known in my country to not be the best had actually had some problems in the past with a few customers and their only service is 550km away and I am afraid of the transport to be quite honest, we don't have the best of them either so the machine may come back broken or idk:)

@"RobertRo101"#p7178 - that's very unfortunate and sad to hear. Maybe it's worthwhile chatting to your retailer and they might be able to work with you to try to diagnose the issue yourself. Maybe it's a faulty Gicar box, in which case, they could simply send you a new one and you could replace it easily. At this point, I wish you good luck, and I'm sorry to hear your machine is not working as expected.

Thank you for your help. I really don't know what could have caused this problem, it was working perfectly for the first 3 weeks and I was really enjoying it. Eh, I guess I better learn how to temp surf now until this is fixed:)

Lelit MaraX stuck in HX mode

MediumRoastSteam

RobertRo101 - I believe that, in order for he machine to be “brew stable”, the pressure has to oscillate quite a bit in order to not overheat. If the top half of the manometer remains at, e.g. 1bar pressure constantly when idling, then it’s in HX mode. If it keeps fluctuating to lower pressures, dumps water now and again (in order to keep the HX cooler), then it’s in brew priority mode.

RobertRo101

In both modes mine remains around 0.5bars (0.4-0.6). I will monitor in both modes for pressure changes and for the dumps of water, thanks.

fl13dl1c3

If you’re in HX mode, each temperature setting for the PID should show different a different steam pressure in the manometer. I believe 0 should be about 1 bar, 1 should be 1.25 bar, and 2 should be 1.5 bar - according to some technical manual I found in a review.
And these should sit pretty stable in HX mode.

RobertRo101

Well, in that case, I am never in HX mode:))

DavecUK

RobertRo101 flow is around 47g/10s without the portafilter in place, the Mara V2 also has a green pump.

But you were extracting through coffee I think? Obviously with an empty group the temperatures shown on the group head thermometer will be higher when you run the pump.

RobertRo101

The flow rate is without the portafilter in place. But the video I made to show the temperature was during a normal extraction.

DavecUK

RobertRo101 I thought so, it’s important to be crystal clear when dealing with people/companies who’s native language is not English.

RobertRo101

Yeah, sorry for the misunderstanding. Btw in position 2 for the temperature setting, the pressure gauge is at 0.6 bar

MediumRoastSteam

RobertRo101

So..

What are the top manometer readings for:

Side switch, position HX mode:

Temp. Switch Position left, position centre and position right?

Expected: needle to move to set positions and stay there.

Side switch, position Brew mode:

Temp switch Position left, position centre and position right?

Expected: needle to fluctuate around set positions.

Watch for 10 minutes each and report back.

The reason I ask is that, if there are differences in behaviour, then at least something is happening (rather than being stuck). Currently I’m more confused than certain.

fl13dl1c3

If you switched to PID level 2 and had it sit there for 15+ minutes and it’s now showing 0.6 bars I’d assume your machine is in brew priority mode.

I agree with @MediumRoastSteam to take readings of each of those settings and let us know. That way it’ll be clearer.

RobertRo101

Ok guys, thank you so much for the help, it certainly is a lot more thank Lelit’s:)

RobertRo101

Hi guys, I think I have found the problem or at least the fix but I can’t explain why and how is this possible.

First, let me clear up some things, the machine has been on for around 2 hours and the last extraction was about 40 minutes ago. Coffee priority mode active (at least the switch is in 1 position), temperature setting on 0. I go and look on the thermometer and I see, as usual for the past days, 93-93.5 degrees BUT I don’t know what got in my head and I inserted the portafilter in the group, not tight, just enough so it wouldn’t fall, and I start to see the reading on the thermometer drop to 91.5 (+- a few tenths), which was the normal temperature reading I had in the first weeks of use (but I did not let the portafilter locked in in the first weeks, or at least not always) and I was curious what would happen if I make a coffee. And so I did, and to my surprise, the readings were the same as when I first got the machine, from 91.5 an increase to around 94 and then a decrease to 93-93.5, and the most important thing, it was very stable, completely opposite to what has happened in recent days, I couldn’t believe it:)
I could also taste the difference, less bitterness, and harshness, but it may have just been placebo.

What would the reason for all of this be? Does it have anything to do with the fact that with the lever in the middle position or even higher (before touching the button that starts the pump) there isn’t any water coming out as I saw at other people?

I can make a video of what I am trying to say here, speed it up and post if it helps.

DavecUK

RobertRo101 What would the reason for all of this be? Does it have anything to do with the fact that with the lever in the middle position or even higher (before touching the button that starts the pump) there isn’t any water coming out as I saw at other people?

I honestly would like to beat the person who started this whole middle position thing with a stick. It certainly would upset things if a valve was open….in an HX system depending on the temperature it can cause small voids, or allow water to dribble out, all of which affect the HX loop.

On many machines it can cause problems, such as thermpsyphon stalls on certain types of brew boilers, Crem One 2B LFPP problems with pump noise…etc..

When making a coffee with any E61 machine I move smoothly from fully down to the fully up/horizontal position and don’t wait in the twilight zone..

MaraX really is a walk up and shoot machine, make all your coffees and then leave it for 15 or 20 minutes to re stabilise before making more. Will the software always get it perfect…possibly not, but it’s much closer than most HX machines. If steaming, it’s very important to try and catch it as it begins boosting and almost reaches its peak. I believe on even current software versions…the boost can be continued, by very briefly running the pump. It is a machine you need to adapt to using…or just stick it in HX mode if you want a normal HX.

RobertRo101

Yeah, I don’t use the middle position, just straight up and down, not too slow and not sudden and fast, I just thought that seeing everybody’s machine able to do that, my Mara had some kind of problem regarding this.

Still, how could it be possible that leveling the portafilter locked in for 2-3 minutes change the reading on the thermometer to normal and also provide much more consistency in temperature when brewing, and in the right temperature range? Not like these last days where the extraction started from 93.5 and got up to 95.5 and then down to 92, or other crazy temp curves.

DavecUK

RobertRo101 If I’m reading it right, you normally didn’t have the portafilter locked in, but only locked it in before making a coffee. This time when it worked OK, you had left the portafilter locked in?

If this is the case, yes, it could well make a difference…

RobertRo101

Let me try and explain a bit better. In the first weeks since I got the machine, I did not always leave the portafilter locked in, most of the time I didn’t, but the temperature was always constant and in the “right” range of 91.5-92. But since last week or so, something happened the machine started going crazy (and driving me crazy as well:) ) and I presumed that it stuck itself in HX mode (I am yet to do the test @MediumRoastSteam recommend above that I do), but this morning I left the portafilter locked in and immediately, 2-3 minutes, saw the temperature drop from 93.5-94 reading in idle to 91.5-91.8 (which is the temp I had before all of this craziness) and out of curiosity I made a coffee and the temperature during the extraction was very constant and in the normal range, exactly like it was before.
But I can not wrap my head around what could possibly change the whole system in idle and during the extraction by just simply leaving the portafilter locked for 2-3 minutes.

RobertRo101

Just did another test. I let the machine cool off and then started it again, with the portafilter locked in I went a few minutes ago to check on it, after around 50-60 minutes of warmup, the thermometer read 92.3 in idle and as soon as I removed the portafilter, the temperature started increasing to 93.8. Manometer steam pressure was again around 0.5 bar.

Could it be that the portafilter actually catches the surplus of high temperature that I have been seeing in the past week? And if so, what could cause such an increase and what could fix it?

Doram

RobertRo101 Just did another test. I let the machine cool off and then started it again, with the portafilter locked in I went a few minutes ago to check on it, after around 50-60 minutes of warmup, the thermometer read 92.3 in idle and as soon as I removed the portafilter, the temperature started increasing to 93.8. Manometer steam pressure was again around 0.5 bar.

Could it be that the portafilter actually catches the surplus of high temperature that I have been seeing in the past week? And if so, what could cause such an increase and what could fix it?

I am not a physicist, just an owner like you, so take what I say with a grain of salt: First, My portafilter is always in the machine (accept for when I knock out the puck and wash it, of course). I don’t lock it, just “store” it in the group in a way that it stays there and doesn’t push against the gasket. This way, when the group heats, the PF heats with it and is a part of the thermal mass of the group. When you make a shot everything is nice and hot, and you don’t confuse things with different temperatures of the group and the PF.

Common sense tells me the above is how the machine was designed to be used. If you think about it, the group and PF are like a large heat sink. They absorb heat from the water and lose heat to the surrounding air. The software uses the temperature of the water to calculate how to control the heating element to turn on and off so that the end result will be the set temperature in the group. So if you add/remove metal mass from the machine, or if part of the mass (the PF) is at a colder temperature because it wasn’t in the group, this can cause a change in the temperature of the water in the thermosyphon and confuse the software, resulting in the fluctuations you see in group temperature.

I don’t have a group thermometer so can’t confirm this, but you do, so it should be very easy to see if keeping the PF in the group stabilises the temperature or not. If it does, then your problem is solved.

RobertRo101

Well, after a few tests, this is what I will do going forward: leave the machine to warm up without portafilter, and 4-5 minutes before making a shot I will lock in the portafilter to reduce the idle temperature to around 91-91.5 and more importantly the extraction temperature to around 92 (+-0.5), this is all in temperature setting 0.

Another option is to find a position (not too tight, not too loose) for the portafilter to be locked in the grouphead.

Strange thing is, I did not have any problems like this in the first weeks of use so something happened inside the machine but at least I am glad I could find a “fix” for it. Will come back with updates and readings from the thermometer after a few more tests.

Who knows, maybe it will help somebody that has problems with the stability and doesn’t have a thermometer and has the V2 of the Mara (as Lelit said when I spoke with them, the V2 has a new more “aggressive” software to get the machine warmer faster and I am guessing they do this by overheating it after start-up).

DavecUK

RobertRo101 You should not have to follow this procedure!

Doram

RobertRo101 this is what I will do going forward: leave the machine to warm up without portafilter,

Not sure about the rest, but is there a specific reason for you to insist on warming up the machine without the portafilter in the group?

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