Vesuvius Pressure Profiling Machine - General Discussion

DavecUK I wasn’t sure where it is to be fair! It seems to be matching your description perfectly.

prezes At almost £60 a pop, I would clean it 😃. In the past I was cleaning the vacuum breakers of all my machines regularly and they performed as expected.

prezes let there be light, he said ☕

kautivo As @kautivo says, his machine was sent to my home some weeks ago. Same problem. Steam boiler under pressure and you’ll get trouble; cold steam boiler and you’ll be fine. I do not know why the problem didn’t show at the factory but I guess the pump settings were changed. The machine arrived to my home with factory settings and the problem was evident. 100% of times failure with hot steam, 100% free of failure with cold steam boiler (does not matter if it was on or off)

Paolo asked us to change pid settings again and we managed to get a nice ramp up with no preinfussion, using a plain 9 bar profile and tweaking pump settings and acceleration again. Next step will be to get rid of the pressure problem with a regular 10″ preinfussion profile, will see…

After 6 years, always with this problem with steam boiler, I decided to sell my Vesuvius and just get another machine. I sold it very cheap and letting know the new owner about this. This is a great machine and I can not understand why this inconvenience is so complicated to overcome but… . I can’t understand how this is happening just with four machines, the four machines I know well, and another one in the British coffeeforum as I posted in this thread a long time ago.

I just want to thank the forum for the help provided, hope this will be solved soon!

tocateclas - Which machine did you replace the Vesuvius with?

MediumRoastSteam I’ve bought a Linea Micra. I wanted to try something different to the E61 and this is very different indeed. Really amazed with it!

tocateclas

Welcome to the club!

We have a thread dedicated to LM owners here:

https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1642-la-marzocco-owners-chat-all-welcome/424

HarveyMushman thank you!

Paolo_Cortese Ciao Paolo, well, that’s not correct. The machine arrived home with factory settings, those recommended in your manual. Anyway, we changed pump settings again and problem was still there. Then we started to test what you asked: new pump settings with a plain 9 bar profile and the machine does not overshoot. But if you program a profile with a 10 seconds 2 bar preinfussion problem remains unaltered: no steam pressure no problem, high steam pressure, problem. No overshooting with new settings with a flat 9 b profile does not mean steam pressure was not causing the problem. The vesuvius is not a machine you want to perform with a 9 bar plain profile.

As I’ve explained quite a few times, overshooting is not the problem, is just a consequence. With steam boiler hot there is always, 100% of times, a stop at two bars. Always. There is a physical obstacle. You can see the manometer stop, you can hear how the pump struggles to pass this 2 bar mark. Yes, you can tweak pump settings and try to tame the pump to the limit it can barely go up so it will no overshoot but this is not the point. But why? Just avoid steam pressure to pass 120º and you will not have any problem. Never. No stop, no struggling, no overshotting with steam under 120º. Just a smooth shot anytime, always and with any pid settings (I mean “logic” pid settings, you have to know what you are doing with this and with any espresso machine).

The Vesuvius is a capable machine and should be a flexible one: you can make a soft curve or you can reach pressure faster, you can play with different pump settings and acceleration, you have to know always what are you doing and adjust profile and settings to your style of espresso. Sometimes you will program, i.e., 11 bars of peak knowing the machine will arrive just to 9 or 10 and the other way round, depends of type of coffee, roast level, profile, etc. But, sorry to say again, machine should perform 100% of times in the same way with hot or cold steam. It’s ok, pid settings could be wrong despite being the recommended by factory, but even being the case, it should work in the same “incorrect” way with or without pressure in the steam boiler. This is not how our machines (well, not mine anymore) are working. Our four machines does not perform in the same way depending if the steam boiler is or not under pressure.

I have been using the Vesuvius for six years. Every day. Two cappuccinos for breakfast and about 4 to 6 espressos during the day. Everyday during 6 years. I know very well how the machine works. Yes, it could be a complicated machine if you want but this is not the experience I’ve had. For me it’s been easy to adapt to pressure profiling. But, and sorry to insist: if you want to steam milk you will have to control temperature before making the espresso, a kind of the old temperature surfing technique you had to use with gaggia classic and similar. I’ve not looked for a simpler machine, just for a more reliable one. Now I can steam milk without spoiling my espresso.

I really hope this problem gets solved soon!

Asa far as i remember the machine that i got was tested from me and Dave, i had a different point of view from Dave because he tried to set a single setting for flat pressure and variable ones, i set two different pid parameters for flat or variable, it’s up to you. Also i remeber that when i got the machine it makes over pressure with and without the steam. My test with flat pressure was made just to check if there is something wrong with steam. The machine that i got had a problem also of return water due of one way valve that not close perfectly and i add another one. No i don’t know if this is the same case of the other 3 machines.

Paolo_Cortese My machine had this issue of water returning to the deposit. I changed not just the one way valve but the whole water distributor. That is solved now.

My machine does not overshoot without steam under 120º. Never. @kautivo ’s machine neither overshooted without steam pressure when arrived home, exactly as mine.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to change pid settings to go for a flat or variable profile as every (or almost every) Vesuvius owner will use, at least, a two stages profile, pre + plain. Anybody here using a one step profile with his Vesuvius? Whats the point of looking for an exclusive plain profile pid setting?

And yes, we can be fine with a plain 9 bar profile and steam at 130º tweaking pid settings but, for the moment, we can’t do the same with a “normal” vesuvius pressure profile. I hope this is just a step to get to the problem and solve it but it’s still far to be fine.

Why is not possible to have the machine working properly with factory pump settings?

I have had sold mine (“por cuatro perras”. Translation: a little money). The buyer will not use the steam. In my case, after four years of daily use, I learned to manage the overshooting problem in the morning: a little annoying routine of switching off/on the steam boiler before making coffee was not a really problem for me. For me the problem is not knowing what really cause it. I also would like to think that you are going to solve it, but sincerelly, I have lost hope. But for people with your knowledge it shouldn’t be a problem. I know that you manage different hypothesis, and you have the videos, the info and other vesuvius machines in the factory.

HarveyMushman

yeah that’s true, the only thing is that i’m not saying that he bought an expensive simple machine. Everyone can buy whatever he want with their money, the only thing is that the problem faced have nothing to do with temperature but with profiling in some conditions and of course you cannot compare the two machines.

In any case back to several years ago we shipped a machine in the US and Homebarista did a test comparing with a Marzocco Strada EP 2 groups (at that age the Vesuvius was the only single group available). So comparing a machine that cost 4 times more than another it’s a bit funny especially because they compared a machine with different group, one it’s an old E61 group with a personalized group. I post the link so if you are curious you can look at the result of the test. Vesuvius Espresso Machine Review (home-barista.com)

HarveyMushman

i can speak about us not for the others. Makes a group it’s a big investment and not often the result are the best, i can tell you about different companies that have a different group than the E61 but not perform as it should. There are a lot of companies that assemble machines that are similar than others but in a different case. You are, and not only you, a satisfied LM customer, there are also some unsatisfied and this is more strange due of semplicity of the system where you can change few parameters and it’s very rare that you can go wrong. I can tell you that i have some customers that changes a Decent machine where you can set whatever you want for one of our lever machine, where you can change just the temp and preinfusion pressure and are really happy. I can undestand also why other people say that LM it’s very expensive, but it’s a bit like the watches, there are some with a lot of functions, really precise but cost a fraction of a Rolex that tell you only the time. The most important thing is to enjoy for what you have paid. In this price range a coffee machine it’s not just a thing to make a coffee but a part of own passion and for that in most case people that doesn’t have the same passion cannot understand why you will spent 6/7K euro for a setting just to make a couple of coffee daily.