dutchy101 Evidently not!! I tried today for S&G’s and it was HOT 🤣

@DavecUK MediumRoastSteam

I went to do a video today and all behaved as normal. Service boiler was on longer than normal due to a paint eating incident distracting me.

I’ll monitor and make notes the next time it happens - and get a video if I can.

        The machine hasn’t done it again, yet.

        It absolutely more than filled one of my 240ml mugs before spluttering and dispensing boiling hot water, but for the time being you’ll just have to take my word for it.

          PortafilterProcrastinator It absolutely more than filled one of my 240ml mugs before spluttering and dispensing boiling hot water, but for the time being you’ll just have to take my word for it.

          We’re not doubting you, just wondering how it managed to do that. The water has to be above boiling to create any pressure to push something out of the hot water tap. As far as I know the boiler water can’t be above boiling part way up the boiler, and cold at the bottom, which is where the heating element is….and a circulation is set up within the boiler, up the middle down the sides.

          Was the pump running when it did it, would the boiler have been completely full (overfilling), although again wet steam and a puddle underneath from the vacuum breaker should have been the result?

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              DavecUK Thanks. This is why I’m so confused.

              I can’t remember if the pump was running - no puddle underneath, although I will take the cover off and check for internal signs of leaks.

              I’ve not noticed a change in purge behaviour - a few spurts of water and then steam. Its always done that.

                  15 days later

                  So this happened again this morning, which caught me off guard as it hasn’t happened for a while. I will describe as best I can.

                  • Service boiler switched on

                  • Life/ Pop out to get milk (so service boiler on for 30/35 mins before I touch it)

                  • Open hot water tap, notice no spluttering/ not super hot - service boiler temp shown as 125/126 degrees

                  • Take c.500ml water out service boiler in two goes (I did weigh it, was within a couple grams of 500) (stick my finger in it, ’oh, that’s hot’ but certainly not ’oh s**t that’s hot’)

                  • Pump runs, service boiler fills, I top up the water tank, boiler finishes filling, but the temp shown does not change

                  • I do not hear the usual noises when the heating element kicks in to re-heat

                  • I turn on the steam, a normal amount of water comes out and then steam - it looks like the normal amount of steam I get, but I cannot be certain it is the same ‘strength’/ force etc

                  • The heating element then kicks in and I notice the temp shown has dropped to 112/113 degrees

                  • I give the service boiler time to come up to temp whilst I grind some beans and prep portafilter etc (5 mins maybe, just to be sure)

                  • I open up the hot water tap, a small amount of hot water, then the normal spluttering/ super hot water - this was normal behaviour

                  • Pump runs, service boiler fills

                  • Normal service resumes, I crack on and there is no other odd behaviour

                  I’ll be honest, I am at a bit of a loss. I have not done anything different with the machine recently.

                    I’ve had something similar happen with the steam temperature recently on my Minima. It seems to have resolved itself by me leaving a longer warm up time for the service boiler whereas it used to be good to go after 10 mins

                    PortafilterProcrastinator I’d be guessing but it could be a faulty temperature sensor miss reporting the temperature to the Gicar box

                    PortafilterProcrastinator Take c.500ml water out service boiler in two goes (I did weigh it, was within a couple grams of 500) (stick my finger in it, ’oh, that’s hot’ but certainly not ’oh s**t that’s hot’)

                    This bit is confusing because it uses steam pressure to get the water out, so by definition, it would have to be in excess of 100C??, and the water would feel boiling hot. Try boiling a kettle, filling a mug of water and dipping your finger in it, would you class that as hot, or shit that’s hot? This gives me some context.

                    Your next bullet says pump runs service boiler fills…was this pump running while you were drawing water, I ask because it’s not possible to draw 500g without activating the pump, or shouldn’t be?

                    Heres the logic and contradictions I am struggling with for you to consider:

                    • Water not hot e.g. not at 98C+ (how did it exit the boiler, did the pump push it out, did water expansion push it out, water expansion seems unlikely to push that amount out (40ml perhaps)
                    • Vacuum breaker stuck, air heats and expands, this air expands enough to push water out at way below 100C (unlikely, normally there is not enough pressure to push much out, also temp sensors not fooled by this like pressure stats, they know it’s not at the right temp)
                    • Faulty temperature sensor (this is a possibility, although still doesn’t explain how the water came out “not really hot”, for anyone in doubt, set your service boiler temp to 105C and see what happens and whether the water is hot).
                    • faulty temp sensor, faulty Gicar, overfilled boiler and pump runs pushing water out…that’s (3 simultaneous faults, which is again not likely)

                    Above are the things I’m thinking about and I can’t seem to make sense of the problem, in those thoughts might be some clues to help you remember something, or notice something you didn’t perhaps realise might be important.

                    PortafilterProcrastinator The heating element then kicks in and I notice the temp shown has dropped to 112/113 degrees

                    Because it did an autofill with cold water.

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                            DavecUK Thanks Dave, sorry for slow reply.

                            DavecUK This bit is confusing because it uses steam pressure to get the water out, so by definition, it would have to be in excess of 100C??, and the water would feel boiling hot. Try boiling a kettle, filling a mug of water and dipping your finger in it, would you class that as hot, or **** that’s hot? This gives me some context.

                            I will stick my finger in some boiler water tomorrow - been a bit hot (and busy!) today.

                            This is also the crux of my bafflement with the issue. Heating element at the bottom, hot water comes from the bottom, steam comes out the top, but it simply isn’t ‘boiling’ hot.

                            I am going to get a kitchen thermometer so I can test it the next time it happens.

                            DavecUK Your next bullet says pump runs service boiler fills…was this pump running while you were drawing water, I ask because it’s not possible to draw 500g without activating the pump, or shouldn’t be?

                            The pump did start running whilst I was filling. This is why I was confused the temperature didn’t drop on the display. I waited until the pump stopped filling before I opened the steam valve, but the temp hadn’t dropped.

                            DavecUK Above are the things I’m thinking about and I can’t seem to make sense of the problem, in those thoughts might be some clues to help you remember something, or notice something you didn’t perhaps realise might be important.

                            All noted, thank you. I will also set the service boiler to 105 and see what happens.

                            On the vacuum breaker point, I will have to take the top off and watch whilst it heats up to see what’s going on.

                            DavecUK Because it did an autofill with cold water.

                            Yes, absolutely - my observation here was that the display temp didn’t drop until after I’d opened the steam valve, even though the pump had run and filled the boiler - as if opening the steam valve jolted something and got everything working/ going again.

                            I’ve not had the service boiler on today, but will do tomorrow.

                                        @CoyoteOldMan @DavecUK

                                        So happened again today. Screaming (excited) children meant no video.

                                        I’d confidently call the first draw of 240ml luke warm, but there was still some steam - albeit not normal power at all.

                                        I only drew 240ml before opening the steam valve. Steam tapered off but some kept coming.

                                        Pump ran and filled the boiler throughout as normal.

                                        I waited for temp to get back to 125deg whilst I ground and poured two shots.

                                        I then steamed 190g milk - huge difference. I got it very hot - passed the LH Michael Jackson test. But it was as thin as cold milk. The screaching/ shredding sound was a lot harsher than it normally is.

                                        I will email ACS and see what they say.

                                          PortafilterProcrastinator I suspect they will suggest changing the thermal sensor…Was this the one that was purchased from Black Cat Coffee, if so, they get a special price, because they buy out the warranty and any replacement part should really be from them?

                                          Bought direct from ACS it’s a 2 year parts warranty.

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