Cuprajake The audiophile guys swear blind that mains fuses make a difference. Not to mention the need for even more expensive mains cables with cryogenically treated oxygen free copper.

How they square this with knowing there is metres of plain old twin and earth on the other side of the mains socket, and the the national grid beyond that is above my pay grade, but folk buy them and swear they hear the difference.

They are less keen to try to evidence these improvements by controlled blind testing though. That would spoil the magic.

I found 4 unused Neutrik RCA plugs in a drawer the other day though so just bought a few metres of Belden 8402 to make up some interconnects. That’s about my level - good quality but no fairy dust.

The one review when I read it was astonishing….🤣

My hobby is just as stupid, I collect Espresso machines, how ridiculous is that. I even pay to go on holiday and work with more Espresso machines.

There’s so much fairy dust haha

People swear blind they can hear a different in cables. I presume these are the same people who can taste the difference between a 17g and. 16.8g shot 🤣

Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    Cuprajake You say “cables”, do you mean mains cables, or instrument/ interconnect cables?

    I used to keep a couple of cables and a small amp by the bed, so when I woke up, I would play a bit, then start the day. Some days I suspected the amp, or a tube/valve was playing up, I’d start trying to fix it, only to find nothing wrong. Then I found, to my considerable surprise, the clearly audible difference depended on which cables I picked up.

    Cables used in hi impedance (hi-z) situations have a massive effect on signal, usually capacitance is the thing to look out for, but some low capacitance cables can be dull too, all high capacitance cables will be dull, so it’s a bit complicated. Decades back this was a big driver in performance microphones going away from hi-z to lo-z, manufacturers even used to specify max cable lengths for hi-z mic cables with their mics.

    Anyone who can hear can tell the difference between 2 very different hi-z instrument cables by their sound, price may not be informative at all however. Preference is in the ear of the beholder. It’s like the difference between brewing coffee with RO water or Vittel, or Buxton.

    The difference between 17.8g and 18g (all else being equal) - this is a straw man fallacy, no one ever said they could, it’s a difference of 1% in just 1 parameter.

    A cleverer man than me once said the differnce a thing can make is dependent in how much difference and how many states that difference can be seen in. A cable has more states than just coffee dose and capacitance varies by way more than 1% for cables of the same length.

      MWJB Instrument/interconnect cables can make a huge difference. e.g tonearm wire and the interconnect between a record player and a phono amp is carrying a tiny signal and can be really crushed by capacitance enough to be obvious to anyone. Same with a guitar lead - the change from a 3m cable between guitar and amplifier to a 10m cable which is otherwise identical is noticeable to anyone with ears.

      I’m a firm believer in quality interconnects everywhere for audio, but not audiophile stuff - I use decent stuff that is used in recording studios. Recording engineers generally have better ears than middle aged audiophiles, and if it is good enough for them… And it is way cheaper!

      Mains cables either work or don’t. I’m no expert on digital cables, but they tend to be standardised - I needed to get better HDMI cable rated for 4K HDR 120Hz recently. But these things are regulated by standards - as long as they are genuinely certified (i.e. not fake claimed) to meet the required bandwidth I’m not convinced any provide better sound a picture than others.

      Hi-fi has long been the refuge of cheats and charlatans. I spent 23 years at the BBC working in sound and another 23 writing equipment reviews for a Pro Audio magazine.
      Leaving aside the mains cable nonsense, let alone the fuses, these so-called experts ignore the way in which material is produced. I also spent some time wiring high end recording studios. Speaker cable was usually 2.5amp mains cable and all the interconnects were copper multiway going through Krone frames and jackfields, all telephony technology. There is a terrific amount of BS about everything to do with hi-fi. E.g. using a magic marker around the periphery of CDs. I could cite many, many more examples… Interconnects costing hundreds per meter, turntables costing thousands to play vinyl records which are inherently imperfect.
      Ignoring all that, hi-fi obsessives don’t really listen to the music or movies, they just listen to the equipment.
      I have studio monitor speakers and some high end converters etc. I listen mostly on computer speakers or a modest surround sound system. I’m much more interested in the content than the ultimate sound quality.
      I live in hope there is a bit less BS about coffee machines and grinders but I’m not holding my breath.

      I love my hi-fi and like many, in reality when I get passed a certain price point I can no more hear the difference than I could taste the difference between a coffee bean that is one hour older than another. So much snake oil and so many gullible people.

      Of course what they all fail to take into consideration when listening to hi-fi is the amount of build up of ear wax one may or may not have.😁

        Pompeyexile Of course what they all fail to take into consideration when listening to hi-fi is the amount of build up of ear wax one may or may not have.😁

        Well there’s a camera and bits you can buy for that. 😄

          DavecUK and I’d say they gone in all levels of quality and different levels of must haves and many noticeable differences etc etc..!! There must be some that specialise for the audiophile too😂

          a good post to read, when reading reviews of stuff they might as well be speaking a foreign language sometimes as I cannot understand what they talk about or I think it’s a load of Bollocks some differences they hear must be minuscule or only show up on a piece of measuring equipment, how about just listening using yous ears however iffy they may be because you are stuck with whatever hearing you have mine is not very good but hey ho it is what it is

            This was kinda my point.

            I got sucked into the hole whilst looking at DAC, this one measure better, this one even more and in the end all these measurements are not even audible

            So to compliment my ifi zen can I got a smsl dac which measures alot better. But the build was crap, so that’s going back and the matching ifi unit will be here today

            Re the cables thing I’m on about mainly headphone cables, where they charge £200 for a lead. I’ve seen 50cm ifi usb cables for £300 🤯🤯🤯

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            I was looking at hifi Zen DAC’s but I wanted one with 2 Digital Coaxial inputs and settled on a Topping DX3Pro Plus, sounds ok to me but have not heard anything to compare it to so I will stick with it

              gordy53

              yeah i already had the zen can, i was using a dongle dac but wanted a bit more

              i nearly got the topping e30ii and l30, but then that would of ment selling the zen can - so stayed in brand in the end

              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              it’s a bottomless pit, if you have the money, I cannot believe how much some Coffee machines are and the same for grinders it must be nice to have the money to be able to afford some of the stuff but WAY out of my price range but I am happy with my stereo and my Lelit

                Yeah you get to the point of deminishig returns

                At a certain point it’s just what appeals to you

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                gordy53 but I am happy with my stereo and my Lelit

                I’m just happy with my Lelit. I don’t have a stereo (nor a camera). 😉

                Speaking of cables 🤣 new balanced cable

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                gordy53 a good post to read, when reading reviews of stuff they might as well be speaking a foreign language sometimes as I cannot understand what they talk about or I think it’s a load of Bollocks some differences they hear must be minuscule or only show up on a piece of measuring equipment, how about just listening using yous ears however iffy they may be because you are stuck with whatever hearing you have mine is not very good but hey ho it is what it is

                That’s quite an interesting dichotomy, though.

                Quite when is not being able to detect something a lack of training, education or experience and when is it mere techno-babble? Because, if a subject is inherently complex, unless you understand the terminology you won’t understand the subtleties.

                Case in point - quantum physics. I am not any sort of physicist, but I have done a fair bit of reading, and I do have some friends that are physicists …. including one actively working on research at a very large particle accelerator. I can cope with some of what he says, to the extent of understanding roughly what he’s on about when he explains it. But as soon as he starts getting into quantum physics, it makes my head hurt. I mean, some of the concepts are sufficiently abstract that he might as well be talking an alien language. He could be imparting earth-shattering gems of wisdom, or describing a gobbledygook nursery rhyme for all I understand. That it goes right over my head is due to my lack of education, training and experience, not the terminology he uses. Unless he’s playing silly beggars with me, that is.

                When it comes to coffee, I personally have no doubt that there are people that simply have a better ability to taste than I do. These are the so-called ‘super-tasters’ that have many more taste buds than the majority of us. So …. given that physiological difference, things that genuinely make a difference to them, I can’t detect. I have personally confirmed that much. But, when they describe things I cant detect, it doesn’t mean they can’t.

                Same for hifi, up to a point. We all have different hearing, and two of us could be sitting side by side in the same concert hall, or hifi demo room, listening to the same thing, but cannot know what the other is hearing. One might be able to hear things the other can’t, because our hearing is different.

                Many years ago, I took part in some experiments on hearing at university. I was a volunteer lab rat, if you like. It turns out I had hearing that went extremely high. High to the point that the technicians couldn’t quite believe I was hearing what I said I could …. so they tested it. With signal generators and some very expensive speakers, they tested me on various frequency of tones, and I had to push a button when I heard something, not knowing if they actually were playing anything at all. Sometimes they were playing a very high tone, sometimes they tested but played nothing. I hit a 100% score, on dozens of such tests, only ever saying I heard the tone when it was playing, with zero falso positives, but also zero false negatives.

                That was decades ago, though. These days, age and a mild dose of left-ear tinnitus (thanks, I believe, to blood pressure) have degraded my hearing way below what it was, back then. In those days, I was pretty particular about hifi equipment choice because I could hear the difference. Several friends thought I was nuts buying some of the gear I did, because they couldn’t hear the difference. Well, so be it, but I sure could. Back then. Now, of course, I’m far less fussy about audio gear because the limitation is my hearing, not the gear.

                All that stuff gives reviewers a problem. Do they have what it takes to review stuff in this or that category, or not? Are they physiologically equipped t taste or hear it, or to understand those quantum concepts? Is the terminology pure marketing psychobabble, like I believe a good many audio products to be, or is it terminology to describe something I just don’t understand?

                Probably, a bit of both.

                Reviewers also have to know quite who their target reader/viewer is. Trying to explain a concept in quantum physics to 14-year old school kids is going to be different to trying to explain it to Nobel-winning physicists. What, to that latter group, is conventional terminology is going to sound like babble to the former group. Ever tried listening to two senior doctors discussing a medical issue? They might as well be talking Martian for all I can get, yet it’s been ME they’re talking about.

                It’s also one of the problems in this age of vast amounts of free ‘reviews’ on the internet - just how much does the reviewer understand? Do they know their stuff, or just can talk a good game? And who are they aiming their review at …. a novice, an expert, or somewhere in-between? The vast range of information available on the net certainly is hugely useful, but it should be treated with a degree of caution too. Especially “reviews”.