Hi All I am looking at moving my city grinder to the cottage. My cottage grinder (a Bartaza Sette 270) is too loud, which wakes my wife, such that I must use a manual LidoE if she is sleeping. Its also a good excuse to further upgrade my city setup, which includes a Eureka Mignon Specialita. Here’s my criterion: * say upto 800 £ sterling ($1,200 Canadian). Possibly upto 1000 £ if I can buy one at a Black Friday or Boxing Day Sale (ie a 1000 £ machine for 800£). * If I can achieve more for less £ $, then so much the better. Yet another 800£ on espresso equipment is stretching things. * As compact as a Eureka Mignon (must fit under a standard kitchen cupboard); a compact footprint is also good, to save counter space. But height is the most critical dimension. * As quiet as the Eureka Mignon. * A “Titan class” grinder in a compact form. * Single dose hopper preferred, so “Titan class” may not be possible. Looking for the best/most suitable burrs within my price point. * Tends towards sweet chocolate and caramel notes. * Grinder speed is not an issue. But I read that low RPM is good, as low heat is good. * Allows me to further improve the taste of my shots. * Ease of burr access for cleaning. * Ease of burr removal, for cleaning and re-alignment if necessary. (I do need to read up on the whole burr alignment topic; have not checked this on my Mignon but read in passing that it’s important). * Other suggested criteria? Is the above achievable? Suggestions? Reasons why? PS … I could just buy another Eureka if that is still the best option. Sorry to repeat an ongoing topic.

Eureka Atom 75 with short hopper? Not exactly compact but not huge. I’m going to say Super Jolly but I’m biased… Not sure they’re really considered titan class but a couple of options to consider against the Niche recommendations that will follow.

@"JHCCoffee"#p30230 - Does it need to be hopper fed? Are you not keen on the Niche Zero?

Great point. Does not need to be hopper fed. I actually prefer to single dose. I will add that criteria.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p30238 Does it need to be hopper fed? Are you not keen on the Niche Zero? Thanks MediumRoastSteam. I actually prefer to single dose. So does not need to be hopper fed. I have not yet looked closely at the Niche Zero, but should. How does it compare to the Eureka Mignon Specialta, especially in end result? I probably should search for review threads on the Niche.

@"JHCCoffee"#p30241 - I can't tell you because I never had them side by side. What I can tell you however is that the Niche Zero ticks all the items in your list of requirements.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p30242 can’t tell you because I never had them side by side. What I can tell you however is that the Niche Zero ticks all the items in your list of requirements. Thanks! I take it that you have a Niche Zero. What do you like about it? What would you change? Would you buy it again? What did you have before, and how did it improve things for you? I’m especially interested in impacts on: a) taste, and b) taste consistency. Sorry for the several questions. I’d be delighted to hear your take on the Niche.

@"JHCCoffee"#p30243 - I bought my Niche 3 years ago as a Super Early Bird supporter. What I like: \- Ease of cleaning: It's incredibly simple to remove the burrs and clean it; \- Single dose: I can swap coffees around. But for me, it's about not leaving coffee in the chute getting stale. No wastage! \- Ability to use for different methods, and consistently go back to where it was; \- Easy work flow, and not messy at all (unlike other grinders where grinds fall all over the show); Before that I had, in descending order: * Kinu M68; (Messy as hell); * Profitec T-64 (retention monster); * Eureka Mignon; I never had them side by side, apart from a few days. I never tasted them side by side. But I never regretted upgrading it either.

Like MediumRoastSteam I've had my niche for three years. I also have a Eureka 65E and a Pharos. Suffice to say I really must get around to selling the 65E. The Niche workflow is great and the ability to go from espresso to pour-over and back without losing settings is much appreciated. We drink mostly milky coffees on the dark side. My only reservation is that if light roasts are your thing you might be better off with a big burr flat.

I'm also a happy Niche user. I have had mine a year. It ticks all of your boxes. The workflow is fantastic. No waste. It is just a pleasure to use. Should be really easy to service too if ever needed. I've heard customer support is great, but I have not needed it. I use mine for espresso shots and drip, and switch daily with ease.

At the Rimini Coffee expo, ACS stand, we used the Niche Zero for all the grinding on both single and 2 group commercial levers…We filled the £3000 Quamar grinder with coffee to look good, but never used it, because the Niche was just easier.

Grinder Upgrade Suggestions? (But need compact form)

dfk41

I often hear folks inform people that conicals mute and muddy the taste and in order to gain clarity, you need a flat burr grinder. I am going to question that! I only know one super taster and that is @DavecUK . He does not like dark roasted coffee and in his testing of the Niche since concept, has put everything through it. His grinder of choice before the Niche was a Ceado E92 which as we all know is a monster conical. He tinkered with his to get round the retention issue. If he can quite happily drink light and lighter beans in his Niche, then how much of this flat v conical debate is actually true?

tompoland

dfk41 it’s not about conical v flat. It’s about geometry.

And your taste buds of course.

I currently have two conicals, two flats and one hybrid. I like them all but for different things.

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 then how much of this flat v conical debate is actually true?

I’ll never know until I try it myself. 😊 one day…

Just because someone is a super taster, it doesn’t mean He/she can taste, like or perceive the same flavours.

dfk41

tompoland I appreciate that matey, but, how many of us really have the taste buds to discern these differences? Some will of course but if I was a betting man, I would suggest the number that can really appreciate the differences are far fewer than those who cannot.
If I give my wife a cup of tea and have stirred her cup after mine with a sweetener, she can tell!

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 I appreciate that matey, but, how many of us really have the taste buds to discern these differences

I’m not picking on you, honestly. But almost everything you write I tend to disagree with! 🤣

I appreciate that generally speaking, you have a point. But the point that I’m trying to make here - and maybe so is Tom - is that it’s not about the general public, but about us as individuals. About our individual taste buds.I have a Niche and an Elizabeth, and I’m happy with that. I could upgrade my equipment, I thought about it, but then I try it and I see that, for me at least, there’s little value. I tend to drink light roasts mostly, but I do drink medium/dark sometimes - e.g.: currently drinking Coffee Compass stuff, alternated with more funky stuff.

It might be I would be even happier with an Evo and a Lagom P64… But I don’t know, because I haven’t tried that particular combo.

However, saying that, I have a friend who had an ECM Synchronika and a Niche. He then bought a Monolith Flat 83 Max, and swears by it. He then went further and bought an LMLM, and is as happy as pig in mud.

If he thinks (or whoever else) that this tastes better than a lesser setup, that’s great for him. It might not be the same for you and me, who cannot taste the difference (maybe in my case, as I never tried it side by side), but certainly not for others.

Some swear blindly that the best coffee in the world comes from a La Pavoni. I tried it. It’s nice, but I think the Elizabeth does a much better job. For me at least. 😀

It’s all relative and personal. Enjoy the coffee!

tompoland

Respectfully disagree good sir.

Pretty much every guest here can detect the difference between two very different burr sets.

But that’s for espresso and maybe you are referring to milk drinks in which case I’d agree 100%.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam haha…..no worries on not agreeing with me matey. Firstly, if you are drinking coffee without milk, then yes, the taste differences will be apparent. If you take milk in your drink, then I think it will not be apparent. I am going to do a poll if I can work out how to do it to see if those who reply take more milk based than not….be interesting

DavecUK

I personally believe the grinder debate is much like the preferred colour of car, type of shoes etc.. There is no right answer.

One thing seems to be a common feature, the more people pay, the more satisfied they seem to be. This seems to apply to conicals and flats, where I first heard the expression (recently) conicals that taste like flats…

JahLaza

Funny old topic! I started with the eureka specialita, sold that then and bought a niche zero which has been resting since I bought a second hand Mazzer major a few months back. I was convinced I could tell the difference between flat and conical (preferring flat). I was put on the spot yesterday by herself asking what I’m going to do with the niche as it’s sitting in the corner- I don’t think I can sell it!! It’s just so good all round, as many many others have confirmed here and elsewhere. I would take the specialita back no problem but I will hold the Mazzer as long as I can and have the itch to take out the niche very soon. It is such a joy to use as well as everything else. I wonder if I could tell the difference at this stage. I think one needs to use a few different grinders to know the important boxes that need ticking and that’s if time/finances allow this! Hopefully I can keep both, I’ll be happy enough with either but of course the Mazzer takes up a lot lot more space

Edit:forgot to mention diminishing returns!

tompoland

JahLaza funny you mention that “don’t think I could sell it” re the Niche. I did sell mine and then missed it so much I bought another one.

BTW, what are model Mazzer did you buy?

CoyoteOldMan

tompoland what are model Mazzer did you buy?

JahLaza a second hand Mazzer major

I love it when a plan comes together… 😁

JahLaza

CoyoteOldMan

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RZoIunC1Yk8

tompoland yes I got a Mazzer Major a few months ago and modded for single dosing. A big brute compared with the niche but a great solid piece!

tompoland

JahLaza I think it was the Major that was used in a titan challenge on home barista. one of the best flat burr grinders around apparently. You’ve got one of the best of each flat/concical.

Maybe if you wife mentions that you have a spare grinder again, you can tell her that it’s not really an extra grinder but rather that you are short of one espresso machine?

Pretty sure that she would instantlly see the wisdom in that. 😀

JahLaza

tompoland haha, yes, I’m sure that would do the trick! Luckily she likes coffee too so there’s a small bit of acceptance..

DavecUK

tompoland you can tell her that it’s not really an extra grinder but rather that you are short of one espresso machine?

Reminded instantly of this.

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