I started using 4 oz mason jars with flip top sealed lids. I fill the jars to the brim, to reduce air space. I then freeze the beans. As there are too many beans in the jar for two shots of my 16 to 17g dose, I end up putting the bean jar back into the freezer. Now as soon as I open this very cold jar, moisture forms on its interior surface. So I suspect that there is some moisture on the beans that remain in the jar, which I then place back in the freezer. Is this moisture a concern? Will it degrade my beans?

Alternatively I could remove the jar from the freezer the night before and leave it sealed until it unfreezes. I would then loose the benefit of grinding from frozen.

Or go back to individually (single) dosed vacuum sealed and frozen bags, which will work well with my NZ. Its abit of a pain in the b** to prepare some 20 vacuum packed bags, but the subsequent single dose workflow is great, and will be even better with the NZ (no more weighing beans, as each dose is already pre-weighed). Plastic waste is minimal, as I re-use the bags.

Thoughts?

    JHCCoffee The moisture appears when the moisture in the warm kitchen air touches the glass inside. When you reseal, that moisture is trapped and added to next time.

    Can you remind me of the benefits when grinding from frozen?

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        DavecUK I was about to ask the OP the same question. In the first place I seriously doubt the “frozen” state of beans exists as such as beans do not contain that much water (if any at all). On top of that the moisture can be the way to prevent electrostatic build up during grinding, people use water sprays to deliver moisture before grinding the beans.

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          The idea behind frozen beans is that you end up with a slightly tastier espresso but that you have to grind the beans while they are still frozen otherwise you have the opposite i.e. weaker and thinner espresso

          . I’ve ground hundreds of doses of frozen beans and kept a log for pete’s sake. A bit nerdy like that.

          I can’t say that the espresso was better from frozen beans (maybe a teensy bit but even so, not worth the fuss), but I can say that it was weaker and thinner if left to thaw, relative to being ground when frozen.

          So @JHCCoffee I guess if you grind while still frozen, the moisture issue should go away?

            tompoland So @JHCCoffee I guess if you grind while still frozen, the moisture issue should go away?

            Here’s the issue. I was placing about 50g in a 4 oz glass mason jar and freezing the jar. However when I take the jar out of the freezer, moisture forms on the glass, inside and out. That’s additional moisture, as the room air touches the glass. Now that is OK for the 1st batch of frozen beans that I am about to grind.

            But … when I put the jar back in the freezer, there is now say 34g of coffee plus additional moisture that wasn’t there before. This cycle repeats until the beans are gone; ie one more time. Somewhere I read that one should not place a bag of beans or even an airtight jar of beans in the freezer, then remove the bag from the freezer, take out beans and then place the bag back in the freezer; I presume for that very moisture reason.

            Now I’ve read more than afew studies that indicated that there is no harm in freezing beans, as long as you completely thaw and warm the beans (to room temp) before unsealing the package, so as to not create moisture.

            And I have read a study or two on the benefits of grinding from frozen beans. I’m betting that someone has posted the study here.

            I do like the idea of preparing bags or jars of single doses in advance, especially now that I have the NZ. And I do like grinding from frozen.

            So what I may do is load the jars with only the dose that I plan to consistently use in my NZ (say 16.5g) and then freeze the jars. The only issue is that there will be more air (O2) in the jars, with the staling of the beans slowed by the freezing. Will the extra O2 be a problem?

            My fall back option is to vacuum seal and freeze individual portions. I then cut the top off the bag and grind from frozen. I then keep and reuse the now slightly shorter plastic vacuum bag.

            Thoughts? Ideas?

                JHCCoffee as you completely thaw and warm the beans (to room temp) before unsealing the package, so as to not create moisture.

                Sorry to say that my experience of thawing frozen beans is that it produces less than optimal espresso. It loses viscosity and flavor. But as I always say, try it and see what your experience is, you may come to a different conclusion.

                    And yes, better to vacuum seal individual doses with a low pressure sealer. I’ve used a packing machine for this for thousands of doses. But @DavecUK knows the ins and outs of this. Trouble is, it can be difficult for people to find somewhere to recycle the small plastic bags.

                      Ona have done a lot of work on this.

                      tompoland

                      Thanks for the information links tompoland. A great read/view, which confirms my earlier reading on the benefits of grinding from individual vacuum sealed frozen bags. (Conversely opening a larger frozen bag or container to retrieve frozen beans immediately introduces condensation moisture to that bag/container, so I have avoided that).

                      So I was vacuum sealing individual portion bags and then freezing. But that was/is a too slow process, especially when my too cheap/closet space friendly vacuum sealer overheats (purchased to avoid overfilling the kitchen closet with my ever growing collection of coffee stuff, which my wife complains about). Time to buy a better vacuum sealer and find a storage solution for it.

                      Given the tedium of vacuum sealing 20 or so single dose bags per pound of coffee (so 40 bags when I buy 2 lbs), I bought 24 mini mason jars of 4 oz size, which is the smallest available. I then easily and quickly filled the jars and froze them. The problem is as I described: moisture forms within the jars as soon as they are opened and returned to the freezer; not good. So back to vac sealing and freezing small bags, I guess, with a better vacuum sealer. Except I am getting lazy at my advanced age, and vacuum sealing 40 bags at a sitting is a pain in the bu*. Maybe I will go the small single dose test tube route

                      Anyway tompoland I do find informative that you have found that freezing and then defrosting beans degrades viscosity and flavor. Conversely my online reading (such as the taste test on HB) indicates that there is no impact. I guess that I will need to complete my own taste tests, as you have.

                            JHCCoffee have you done a blind tasting with frozen and non frozen beans to make sure you can actually taste the “benefit”?

                            The coffee world is full of ritual and process in search of the best shot. Freezing, vacuum sealing etc will definitely cost you time and effort. Whereas you only night be able to taste the benefit.

                            I’ve played around and on balance have settled on only freezing coffee if it’ll be more than 6 weeks from roast date before I’ll drink it (pretty much only emergency decaf for guests). Otherwise I just keep in a dark air tight container.

                                hornbyben have you done a blind tasting with frozen and non frozen beans to make sure you can actually taste the “benefit”?

                                Good point/idea! I was/am relying on the studies/tests I had read, and personal pallet. However I will (when I have a moment) try some blind tasting. Currently just working to get comfortable with my new NZ.

                                tompoland and all: For those that are freezing their beans and grinding from frozen (or others), has anyone tried or used plastic or glass tubes for storage of single doses? I recall seeing one pundit using plastic centrifuge tubes. I’ve also heard of folks using plastic specimen tubes. They would need to be sized to hold 16 to 20 grams, without airspace, and have an air/liquid tight screw on cap. I did once buy a set of glass tubes with corks on Amazon, but returned them as they would take up too much room in our kitchen freezer, which would make my non-espresso (Kurig fan) wife unhappy.

                                If you do use some kind of tube, please let me know how many grams of beans fit in the tube (right to the top). Please feel free to post a picture and a purchase link, if you have time/interest in doing so.

                                    tompoland Sorry to say that my experience of thawing frozen beans is that it produces less than optimal espresso. It loses viscosity and flavor. But as I always say, try it and see what your experience is, you may come to a different conclusion.

                                    Curious about other folks experiences on this? Are others also noticing a loss of viscosity and flavor, when freezing and then thawing a well sealed bag of beans. I had been relying on vacuum sealing and freezing 100g bags of beans. I then leave the package out overnight to thaw and warm up, so that there is no moisture formed.

                                      I’ve had inconsistent results. As in: with some coffees, everything seems to work OK; with others, there is definitely a loss of viscosity and taste (and with one in particular I keep getting the grinder stalling as it clumps!). However, it is only the second/third time that I try freezing for each of those, so I wouldn’t put too much store in my observations.

                                        CoyoteOldMan I’ve had inconsistent results. As in: with some coffees, everything seems to work OK; with others, there is definitely a loss of viscosity and taste (and with one in particular I keep getting the grinder stalling as it clumps!). However, it is only the second/third time that I try freezing for each of those, so I wouldn’t put too much store in my observations.

                                        Thanks CoM.

                                        I unfortunately can only drink decaf. Any thoughts on the impacts of freezing and thawing decaf?

                                        Any differences in freezing and thawing decaf light, vs medium vs dark roasts?

                                        Any experiences on the above?

                                            JHCCoffee Thanks CoM.

                                            I unfortunately can only drink decaf. Any thoughts on the impacts of freezing and thawing decaf?

                                            Any differences in freezing and thawing decaf light, vs medium vs dark roasts?

                                            Any experiences on the above?

                                            The decaf beans are always kept in the freezer in a Jam jar, whose capacity is about 100g. We take some out and the jar goes back to the freezer. I have neither seen any deterioration in the performance nor done any blind testing.

                                            These days, the standard beans are Vac-ed, poured into a double dose canisters and kept in the cup board.

                                                JHCCoffee So what I may do is load the jars with only the dose that I plan to consistently use in my NZ (say 16.5g) and then freeze the jars. The only issue is that there will be more air (O2) in the jars, with the staling of the beans slowed by the freezing. Will the extra O2 be a problem?

                                                I think you are probably over thinking this. As long as the Niche can be used to grind from frozen, I would grind, if I were you. Ensure, the beans are not wet.

                                                How long does a jar last? I have used the 100g for even 2 weeks without any issues. I have another small jar of standard coffee that is exclusively reserved for my daughter. It’s been in the freezer for a little over a month.

                                                Before using vac for the standard coffee, I have, like @tompoland, ground from frozen (100g bottle) for a long time. I didn’t see any performance issues.

                                                    LMSC The standard beans are Vac-ed, poured into a double dose canisters and kept in the cup board.

                                                    Thanks LMSC. Quite curious about that setup. How many grams of beans does it hold? How does it get vacuumed? What seals it? How many do you have?

                                                    This sounds quite ideal. Might you have a name, picture or link. Might I ask about the cost.

                                                    • LMSC replied to this.

                                                        LMSC I think you are probably over thinking this

                                                        Its my nature. I’m a commercial real estate consultant but an analyst at heart. Solving espresso is right up my over thinking alley 🧐🤔💭. In my world, identifying and successfully solving a problem is great fun. 😀