Not at all, you save a small fortune doing it in one go and going end game

Personally I’d cancel that grinder order and got for a niche or a df64

The Bianca has fast warm up, flow control through pump settings as well as the flow control up top. Would you use these pre infusion features maybe not, I prob wouldn’t but the flow control does really come in handy sometimes.

ECM make a fantastic machine, and looks are very important after all it’s not just money, but you will be using it day in day out, the exact reason I never bought an Elizabeth

Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    Definitely read these documents about the Elizabeth from DaveC:

    Review:

    https://sway.office.com/YUuIpMmQlYAFkxIO?ref=Link

    Quick guide and advanced features. Definitely reprogram it to his settings:

    https://sway.office.com/S5J4d9Jp4Y9LdVFx

    Maintenance tips:

    https://sway.office.com/qoXHjmMAg4DeFX8b?ref=email

    I would also say that the Elizabeth is a “very good machine” too. I think you will grow to love it as I have.

      Cuprajake

      The STPK 38 had already arrived a little while ago, and I had ground at least a whole bag before I posted on here, unfortunately.

        I think I know the answer to this, but I want/need confirmation from those with more knowledge.

        The reason I got my Gaggia out in the first place was because my cousin made coffee that tasted really nice in his Sage machine.

        Is a Sage machine worth considering? If I do it’ll be specifically this one, which has a 58mm portafilter;

        Sage Oracle Semi-Automatic Espresso Machine - Coffee Machine with Milk Frother, BES980BSS, Brushed Stainless Steel https://amzn.eu/d/5lBxNO1

        I’m only joking, the gaggia really need heavy modification to get good results. My sage duo pro gave better results than my classic

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

          Cuprajake Hehehe, but you haven’t answered the question regarding that specific machine - when compared directly to the combo I might end up with (Elizabeth & SPTK38)?

            Buy the Liz and enjoy your coffee

            And extra £1000 for looks on the ECM imo isn’t worth it. You’d be better off spending that extra money on a grinder

            The rabbit hole gets deep and it’s really deminishig returns once you’re in dual boiler territory

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

              I’ve been in your position, you can actually talk yourself out of a purchase playing each machine against each other

              So I would weigh up what you want from the machine and make a list.

              Most e61 machines will take longer to warm than the Elizabeth, there are a few that are close to it

              All e61 bar the minima will need the cams lubing after a chemical clean the Liz won’t

              Most e61 machines look visually better than the Liz imo, but if you like sage machines the Liz is only a small jump.

              I would get the Liz to pair with your grinder, get a nice tamper, some ims competition baskets and then look at a good water source so you never have to descale.

              Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                Cuprajake

                Honestly you’re so right!! I keep thinking “what about this, what about that”!

                When you say the Liz is only a small jump from a Sage, does that mean I’ll get a decent coffee from the Sage? The reason I ask is because if the Sage can do coffee how well the Liz can, then would the Sage not be an easier machine to make good coffee?

                  Sorry I ment the visual looks.

                  The Elizabeth will likely have a little more longevity to it and it’s easier to find some one to work on the lelit too.

                  The sage will be good, but the built in grinder won’t.

                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  Cuprajake Grinder aside, in which way is the Liz better, when compared to the one I’m looking at (the one that’s more expensive)?

                    2.58, the person he describes who the Sage is designed for, sounds like me.

                    I want great coffee, with absolutely minimal effort (which is why I now know I definitely want a dual boiler), and also pre-infusion for added extraction quality, and PID, all in making a great coffee.

                    Italy made Vs China made, temp control and pre infusion control, should have a quieter pump too and pretty certain more steam power.

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                    The sage will be a good machine too, but it’s really over priced imo. £300 more buys a Bianca 🤯

                    Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                      Cuprajake The only reason I’m thinking the Sage any weight is because of the convenience. It grinds, into the portafilter, tamps automatically, automatically froths the milk without any real input from me etc etc. I just have to transfer the portafilter from underneath the grinder to the grouphead.

                      Agreed it’s overpriced and I’m under no illusion about the price. But if I’m going to consider the Bianca then I have no reason to jump to that over and above the Liz (as already established in an earlier post). The only reason I’m even considering the Sage is because it’s going to give me good coffee with the least amount of effort. Unfortunately (?) convenience is extremely high in my purchasing decision.

                      It’s because of the convenience aspect that I’m wanting a dual boiler, it’s because of that I’m wanting a PID etc etc.

                      The Sage also has temp control I’m sure? Steaming power won’t be an issue as the frothing is completely automatic?