tompoland essentially he was saying that putting springs into lever machines removed, in large part, the ability to vary the pressure.

It did, unless you purposefully retard the lever. It also makes the assumption that the ability to profile pressure is superior. Over the years, although useful, most profiling ends up looking like a lever profile. The one thing levers do, is fill in a unique way. The more advanced ones are then effectively a PID controlled boiler forming part of the group.

Temperature stability on the generation of new dual boiler levers is rather excellent and there is the ability to produce a declining, falling or rising temperature shot. These are not the levers of the past, where temperature is highly unstable. Starting off super hot, then cooling and for subsequent shots different again from even the one you did previously.

Sure a spring may have impacted the lever of yesteryear in a few ways…not only pressure, but also the ability to control the flow rate of water entering the group! This ability to let water enter slowly could possibly mitigate the effect of very hot water entering the group. Unlike home levers, the commercial manual levers had big boilers and didn’t need to run so hot. Today the most modern levers, rightly, remove the link between steaming and brewing

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    8 days later

    So time for a quick update… still enjoying the research into possible espresso machines - the heart is set on a Linea Micra for its small size, style and build.

    But thats a big purchase so not one I will jump into.

    I am also still considering the Flair or 9barista (looking forward to hearing what @tompoland thinks of it ) as a toe in the ocean - but tbh I am also really enjoying the E&B moka pot with IMS screen. This has really improved the moka - it seems to easier to nail each time - nice clean cup and I don’t seem to be over extracting. I just pull it when I get the bug surge towards the end - and the water remaining in the tank is nice and clear.

    Now all I seem to tinker with its the amount and grind size based on whichever coffee I am trying out.

    Speaking of grind size - and always up for trying other stuff when a opportunity arises I purchased the Commandante C40 which came up on the forum.

    I have to say its lovely - it feels very solidly built - its easy to clean - you have plenty of access and a good view through the grinder. Its weighty in the hand more than I expected after using the Omega. Nice smooth action - and feels good to use.

    So what I like is the catch cup - does not hold onto the grinds - it being clear means I can see what left and how its lying when I flip it into the moka pot. The Omega being a solid aluminium cup - it seems a bit more sticky.

    However the Omega has a very easy visible setting on the outside ring - and I have to keep resetting the C40 back to 0 before counting out the clicks - its not a big issue - more a slight annoyance.

    Being the completist I am :) - I have picked up the red clix kit and the longer handle with the larger handle.

    Having just also bought a Osmio Zero - its made my morning much simpler with the hot water on tap. It took about 4 tanks to get rid of that initial taste but its already a major part of the kitchen.

    Lastly being a fan of the milk drinks - the practise is starting to pay off with the nanofoamer. I can not get a nice smooth mixture in about 30 seconds which probably would make good latte art if I was any good at doing it (which as yet I am not).

    Main issue of course if the loss of heat - as you have to heat the milk first - then when you mix it with the nano - it will lose heat quite quickly. This is where having a steam wand would be great - patience is a virtue :)

    Cheers

    Matt

      tompoland So now you have played with both the 9barista and Flair - how do you feel about them as first options into espresso (ignoring the portability as thats just a added bonus)

          MattH

          You can do a bit more quasi pressure profiling with a direct lever (by varying the pressure on the lever) and pulling the shot is always fun. The Flairs deliver superb espresso when done right but temperature accuracy and stability is not great other than with the Flair 58 electric, the latter which makes consistently good shots a lot easier.

          The 9barista makes making superb espresso easy because it limits the variables to heat/pressure (one leads to the other so they go hand in hand) and grind size. So while it’s easy to make great espresso it’s not going to easily produce a range of styles like a direct lever could. And it has a big advantage in its smaller footprint which will be more important to some than others.

          That said, I find that I generally use the same go to profile/preset/recipe for each machine. With the Nurri it’s a double ristretto, the Decent it’s a standard espresso and with the 9barista it’s… well, a 9 barista shot because it pretty much does just the one thing but dang it does it so well.

          But to your question: I think that a newbie will learn more about espresso making with a Flair 58 than with a 9barista. Temperature can be changed and pressure can be varied. And you could try different basket sizes.

          The 9barista is not going to give you as mush opportunity to experiment but I’d certainly recommend it as a first espresso machine for anyone who simply wanted great espresso without having to explore the rabbit hole.

              tompoland Now I want to see what sort of carry case you dream up for the 9 barista :)

                  MattH just ordered the case so once I have it all sorted I’ll upload a pic or two.

                  Afterthought re newbie and the Falir 58 vs 9Barista: if someone needs back to back shots for wife/hubby/SO/guests then the Flair 58 is the winner for that requirement. I’ve done back to back with the 9barista but it’s a bit of faffing around to get it cool enough for the 2nd shot quickly (think ice bath in kitchen sink!).

                      tompoland I think I would be looking at the pro 2 flair not the 58 - though I realise its more of a faf temp wise at least that one is truelly portable and packable especially as counterspace is lacking here 😂

                          MattH I had the Flair Signature Pro 2 and really enjoyed it. I used it as a travel machine. The two best things I did with it were to buy the Flair temperature strip and put one on the boiler barrel thingy and to buy a pair of large tongs (surgical looking) which I’d use to fish the boiler barrel thingy out of a pot or kettle of boiling water.

                          Yes, a bit of faffing around but it saved filling the BBT (boiler barrel thingy) with boiling water three times to get it up to temperature.

                          With that method you can get really consistently good espresso 9 times out of 10.

                            tompoland Afterthought re newbie and the Falir 58 vs 9Barista: if someone needs back to back shots for wife/hubby/SO/guests then the Flair 58 is the winner for that requirement. I’ve done back to back with the 9barista but it’s a bit of faffing around to get it cool enough for the 2nd shot quickly (think ice bath in kitchen sink!).

                            I agree that pretty much every other espresso machine, including the Flair, can get from shot-to-shot faster than the 9Barista.

                            Just to provide some real world data, in my hands, it’s about 6-½ minutes start to finish from pouring shot #1, cooling down the 9Barista, cleaning it out, going through the espresso-making process, and pouring shot #2.

                            We do this pretty much every morning — one shot for my wife, and one shot for me. It works for us.

                            One other note — I just use the cold water from the tap to cool down the 9Barista. I hadn’t thought of the ice bath method, but the cooling down part doesn’t seem to be the rate-limiting step. Most of the time is still waiting for the 9Barista to come to a boil for extraction #2.

                              15 days later

                              Well this has taken a long time… so in the grand plan my end goal (at the mo) is the lamarzocco Linea micra. Well built and small - I think it would fit me for what I want which is to make good coffee repeatably.

                              But this is a expensive machine and so far I have not made any home espresso.. I could hate it :) I have therefore made a decision and ordered a 9barista, hopefully it will be with me next week at some point.

                              Interestingly after watching a Taiwanese YouTube video (with auto subs) it seems they have continued to refine the 9barista - change some of the manufacturing / fit and finish - so will be interesting to see what lands at my door.

                              Next up then is useful gadgets - along the lines of a tamper/dosing funnel. Anyone have any suggestions which dont break the bank? I was thinking maybe the normcore V4 which can be bought for about £45 on amazon.

                              Even better would be a tamper which could change the plates - then I would be set for whichever machine I finally end up with in the future!

                                MattH congrats, can’t help but think you’ll love it.

                                The 9barista comes with a good tamper. I bought a dosing funnel from AE (link below) but it’s only adequate due to it having an internal lip. Still, until I find something better, it will do.

                                https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtgDo26

                                Interested to know if @wwilburpan thinks a puch rake is necessary or not. I’ve been using one but I’m beginning to think it’s not required.

                                @MattH have you settled on a grinder yet?

                                PS I tried the original basket and then the VST but can’t say I noticed any difference.

                                    tompoland I did order the IMS basket with it to try.. I admit.

                                    In terms of grinder - er no not in terms of a electric one - I am going to try with my hand grinders (Mazzer Omega and C40 with red clix). Now how long before I decide its too much we shall see.. but at the moment I only make a couple of coffees a day - and I may not need too fine a grind for the 9barista.

                                    Once I decide a grinder is needed (once I get closer to buying a espresso machine) then I do like to try and buy well and buy once.. hence I will keep an eye on the threads about the SD moca - and on the classifieds as there has been alot of interesting kit put up for sale.

                                      Ohhh just noticed the replacment Chimneys you can but as well - there is a host of add ons on that ali-express page :)

                                      You’ve got two great grinders so that’s covered.

                                      Re the Moca SD. I’m going to play with the DF64V (new model) with various burr sets sometime around mid year. It is due to ship at the end of May. Still want to challenge the Moca SD killer. I suspect the little Swiss Miss will sweep the DF64V aside but I need to keep her honest and make sure she earns the right to keep wearing that crown.

                                      MattH Next up then is useful gadgets - along the lines of a tamper/dosing funnel. Anyone have any suggestions which dont break the bank?

                                      Congrats! on going for the 9Barista! I think you’ll like it.

                                      I grind into the cup that came with my grinder, and then transfer the ground coffee into the 9Barista basket. Here’s the funnel I use. I mainly got it because I wanted one that was stainless steel, as opposed to aluminum. I had no real reason for wanting things that way. But it works great for me.

                                      I use the tamper that came with the 9Barista, and haven’t seen a need to get another one.