FadedFrontiers Indeed, I brought it up to equate two incidents in the hope it could be de-escalated similarly, not to get back in to the original drama or take sides. I even emphasised it several times but some of the replies seem to have ignored this and got excited.

If you look back at the 2 incidents, Denis comment about me were in no way the same as the other incident….they were 2nd hand comments fed to him and quite abhorrent ,and untrue for anyone who cares to go back and check the posts properly.. No way will I put up with things like that. Even suggesting I had a fight with LH, his words below…I absolutely didn’t, I was in bloody Italy when it all blew up and away from the forum for a lot of the time. I won’t put up with that sort of stuff from anyone.

I know you had a “fight” with him for something

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      DavecUK It only applies pressure to the top of the basket where there is contact though (at 58mm diameter)?

      Regardless, if you look at LH’s video with his pressure graph, it’s showing a consistent 9 Bars which wouldn’t seem possible for that setup. Apparently this thing is supposed to be able to do 13-14 bars or something by way of a piston.

          capuchin I guess it needs someone to put a pressure measuring portafilter on it. I assume that must have been done during testing, that’s just basic good practice?

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            DavecUK my point was that they both broke forum rules:

            Abuse, personal attacks, flaming, inciting argument, will not be tolerated.

            The two points you made above which separate it from the previous incident make no difference RE what I can see of the rules, but I understand why it was offensive and incorrect - I’m not denying that. Anyway I hoped it could be amicably resolved but it’s not going to be and that’s fine, happy to move on.

                Mods didn’t ban lance either, dfk got a 6month probation

                Anyways

                MOVING FORWARD

                Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                  There is a lot of overreacting going on here.

                  Not everyone is “in the know” about everything. The world is full of conflicting opinions and pseudo “facts”. Banning someone from expressing an opinion, even if it was based on misleading or downright wrong “facts” is an overreaction. Claiming LH tried to destroy the forum is an overreaction. Claiming he “flounced” is an over-reaction.

                  If I remember correctly LH wasn’t banned but another member from the other side of the “disagreement” was sanctioned and temp banned from posting. I’m struggling to get my head around why that was deemed appropriate as all the blame currently seems directed at LH! If he was treated in a way that warranted the other side receiving a temp-ban surely he was the one treated badly? Maybe he was the one provoked into going into attack mode?

                  Mods on any public forum need to learn how to diffuse and educate people who are falsely informed. Banning them doesn’t help, they won’t be silenced everywhere - only here. If you don’t engage it, rightly or wrongly, looks defensive. Passive aggressive, even!

                  If you have points to make, then make them. If people make incorrect statements - correct them. Discussion, differences in opinions, and even disagreements, are what makes things interesting, They are part of life.

                  Banning, silencing, no-platforming is seldom the right response. Engagement and educations are better options. Otherwise you get a boring group-think pseudo-dictatorship. All IMHO of course.

                    Gagaryn I agree, straight up banning isn’t the best response.

                      Gagaryn Claiming LH tried to destroy the forum is an overreaction.

                      https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/d/1408-lance-hedrick-review-of-the-vostock/62

                      He had a pretty good go and didn’t read, or follow, the rules that already existed which he himself wanted. I was in Italy when all this blew up and would have appreciated a heads up from Lance.

                      As for banning Denis, I was within my rights to ban someone who was basically slandering me in a significantly worse way than is remotely acceptable and far worse than Lance received and look how he reacted!!

                      After 20 years trying to help people for no monetary gain, I am no longer going to put up with lies like that trying to create a narrative. I put up with it for over 4 years on CFUK, from those who were in business and making a profit from coffee and the membership.. Those people basically tried to no platform and cancel me, encouraging as many people as they could behind the scenes (just as they manipulated LH). They almost succeeded, I nearly gave up completely. This no platforming wasn’t to help the membership, just themselves. Denis crossed a line and I will no longer just suck it up as I did for over 4 years.

                      If you think this forum is a dictatorship….you have no idea……Denis was way beyond being educated, he had made up his mind and no doubt listened to other voices whispering in his ear (as used to happen on CFUK), and “facts” were not going to make any difference. I’m absolutely comfortable with having banned Denis for what he said about me….and he would do well to investigate the truth and learn from his mistake. He could even find some way of apologising to me, as a person of character would.

                      CFUK was turned into a cess pit by a relatively small group of people and the then owner realised this which is why he sacked one mod who swore and worse at him and instantly accepted the resignation (blackmail attempt) of another. Made Patrick head mod, allowed me back as I had been banned and asked us to clean up the forum which was slowly being destroyed from within by a small group of people.

                      We all took a lot of crap, but eventually turned the forum around. So much so it was sold for a considerable sum of money, which was a shame as he was making profit, but the chance to double his money was irresistible I guess 60K is hard to turn down….Hence this forum was created.

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                        Gagaryn did you see the 6 posts that lance put on his instagram about coffee time? what happened has been long rooted over the last 3yrs, its been over time and time again, it never ends well, there are multiple stories and no one ever shows fact, they just hide behind the ‘ i dont have to prove out’

                        this has been dragged through enough,

                        what happened between lance and dfk had stopped, but then something happened off forum to provoke lance and he went on the offensive,

                        you have to understand there are people off forum who want to destroy both dfk and daves lives, and to an extent people who associate with them for what has gone one elsewhere. they wont stop and the boot keeps getting put it,

                        time and time again ive said to drop it, but people seem insistent on dragging it back up, all it does is put the forum into a shit mood, at the pleasure of others.

                        @FadedFrontiers by the rules you quoted, lance should of had a warning for the way he spoke to dfk,

                        denis post was totally out of character for him, ive spoken to him personally, and asked him to prove his source, he declined, it is what it is,

                        sometimes things have to be done for the good of the forum, seeing arguments like this is no good,

                        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                          Lance H was 100% begging to be banned. If anyone read the accusations about us (this forum includes you and me) that he posted on social media, you would surely agree that it was out and out defamation.

                          As for Denis, he posted to the effect that Dave is conniving, hypocritical, duplicitous and deliberately undermining the efforts of a manufacturer.

                          For Petes sake, if that’s not begging to be kicked off a platform, I don’t know what is.

                          It’s a no brainer for me.

                          And sure, it’s better to defuse and pre-empt but good luck pre-empting those two.

                          Dave has been a tireless servant of forums for decades and I’m 100% behind his decisions in respect to both bans. I’m only surprised that there aren’t dozens of members posting their support of his decision as well.

                            tompoland Dave has been a tireless servant of forums for decades and I’m 100% behind his decisions in respect to both bans.

                            Just for clarity, LH has not been banned or warned

                            DFK was warned, put on approval for 3 months and told a future incident of that kind would be a permanent ban

                            Denis has been the only proper member I have had to outright ban………… (sadly)

                            apart from one other who joined from another forum with the express purpose of making trouble….you guys never saw it because their posts were not visible to anyone except themselves. They tried to leave their trouble making deposit, left self satisfied that had and when they told their mates how great they had done, I assume they were told no one could see the wonderful post they made. They returned to try again and hurl a bit of abuse at me, at which point I banned them.

                            I use similar tools for spammers, which is why you never see the spam they post

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                              I did actually see LH’s instagrams posts as someone posted them here - I don’t follow his accounts so wouldn’t have seen them otherwise. It was clear that he responded badly to having his integrity questioned. In response he repeated stories that he had heard from third parties about folk here which others know aren’t accurate. But he wasn’t banned - DFK was - I assume for questioning LH’s integrity! I still don’t understand that.

                              Denis has clearly heard stories that lead him to believe Dave has particular interests that sway his judgement. Raising those concerns is not necessarily acting in bad faith, never mind slandering. If he was wrong (which I accept BTW) correct him. You say that he had already made up his mind but that is speculation - you didn’t try to educate his - you simply refused to engage and banned him. Maybe he could have been corrected - and then maybe gone on to correct others who told him whatever they told him. But instead you responded to your integrity being questioned in a similar way to LH - all guns blazing.

                              I have no idea what went on in CFUK so I have no opinions.

                                @DavecUK it is quite disappointing you banned @DenisS - he made some accusations to you directly and you could just defend instead of discretionally ban him just because you have the means for that. It clearly shows we can’t freely speak here and that not everybody has the same voice.

                                You state in your signature this is not a commercial forum but if this is not an echo chamber for Niche an ACS then I don’t know what it is. There is a short list of ppl here that just “signed up for Niche Duo testing” and they just “were lucky enough to be chosen” that would fiercely cancel any criticism to these products and you don’t seem to mind that at all.

                                Of course, that would not be complete without trashing other products you are not involved like Timemore and Meticulous.

                                  We didn’t sign up we were asked just an fyi

                                  And if it was shite they would of have been told so, I’m past the point in my life where I care. I’ve been stepped on too many times trying to be nice, or just make do.

                                  Tbh

                                  There are what 20? Actively active contributing members

                                  We have a mix of machines and grinders

                                  There are more acs user on here granted, as this place seemed to be a haven for acs users. Not being a well know brand it stands to reason that the few ACS owners would end up in one place, just like there are othe forums for other machines.

                                  As for niche…there’s a reason every YouTube vid is a niche killer, do you realise how many niche have been sold world wide 🤣

                                  I’d like to think we have called out manufacturer Inc acs when things are not right and nothing gets covered up or closed down.

                                  Perhaps Dave just knows a thing or two we as normal consumers are not privy to, hence being sceptical of the meticulous, which tbh is quite Sketchy, and then to be told they will be driving for more money once the KS closes….the whole project does scare me a tad.

                                  Since covid the whole dynamics of home espresso has changed and it is now seen as a very lucrative market.

                                  Re what Denis did was a personal attack on someone, I don’t know what he expected to happen really, totally out of the blue🤷

                                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -