After a year of roasting and grinding and more machines than my wife cares to remember, I think I've finally got to the point where I can produce very nice medium and dark roast espressos and now it's time to try the lighter of side of life. I'm therefore seeking advice about the changes I need to make between producing a great dark roast espresso and a great light roast espresso. For example I understand I need to increase the temperature of the water. I've also noticed that 18 g of dark roast produces a much higher puck than 18 g of light roast, so there is a much larger gap between the top of the puck and the shower screen. Does that mean I should be grinding a larger quantity of beans for light roasted beans, perhaps 20 or 22 grams? Finally, it looks like I need to lower the pressure during the pour of a light roast because it seems to change color and lose thickness very quickly. Or perhaps lighter roasts are always going to be thinner than darks? I'm not after citrus style flavours but on the rare occasion I poured a light roast that I enjoyed, I really liked the nutty style taste that I imagine is some of the original flavours of the bean. All advice is welcome. Thanks!

I’ve been drinking light roasts for a while now. I don’t have expensive stuff - just a Niche and Elizabeth, so I can’t control many things. I just do the same as any: 18g in, 36g out over 35s. I think @"Systemic"#8 pulls light roasts too and for sure can offer lots more advice.

With the lever, for lighter roasts, I observed a grinder make a difference to the notes for a given temperature. I have heard light roasts would benefit from burr sets > 64 mm - example 83mm. Pulling a light roast shot using this burr set is unlikely to make a significant difference to the notes and taste for temperatures set 86C (group) / 94C (brew boiler) or 94C/102C. On my Evo, for light roasts, where I use a JX Pro, the cup is too sour at 86C/94C. I need 93-94C / 101C-102C; this range give us lovely shots (not sour, not bitter and nice fruity acidity). Kenyans, Ethiopian and Columbian are my light roast favs. You may also benefit from 1:2.5 ratio on the cup than 1.2. I also grind finer (usually at the lower end of espresso range) for light roasts. You have an amazing grinder, giving you a wider-temp range to play with. We look forward to how you get on. Please share your light roasts profile, which you are happy with and your experiences. You still owe us some video clips of your shots. 😊

Lighter roasts are harder to extract generally (but not always). You can grind finer to a point but need to be careful not to grind too fine in an effort to slow a shot down. Adding more coffee to the basket is tempting but bigger doses are again harder to extract than smaller ones. Don't worry about the colour or appearance of the shot out of the basket and just focus on the taste. You should find it is possible to get palatable shots at a range of ratios. I personally steer clear of the tactic of pulling simple low EY shots that taste good and aim instead for a higher EY and more complex flavours. Shorter ratios around 1:2-1.25 can be balanced but I prefer pushing longer, sometimes as long as 1:4. It depends on the flavour notes on the bag and what I want to get/emphasize. Usually, I buy a coffee for the flavour notes on the bag and to get as many as possible in a balanced shot with a light roast that will mean a longer ratio, but as I said you can get shorter shots with more punchy flavours, maybe at the expense of some clarity. I just prefer shots to be balanced personally. If you have a pressure or flow profiling machine experiment with tailing off the pressure/flow and extended dwell times (i.e wet the puck with a high flow rate and cut flow before pressure builds beyond 2 bar) or longer pre-infusion/slower ramp ups.

@"dfk41"#p2014 Thank you sir, mystery is solved. Learning every day.

Light versus dark roasts

DavecUK

@Systemic likes a light roast, sure he will be along with some advice and things that have surprised him with pressure.

Systemic

Spending Christmas looking after son’s cat. On the plus side, getting the chance to check out his Evo/Niche set up with beans I’ve been using on my Evo/EKs set up. Both Evos are set to 93/102c and the beans are light to light/medium. With the EKs, I aim for shots in the 25 sec range. Above 30 secs and the fruit notes become muted. Shots around 20secs are OK too but best through milk. Niche holds up very well producing great shots but, predictably, can’t attain the clarity the EKs can.

Dumnorix

I was trying to get a light roast Colombian right recently and ended up going for 18g in, 45g out over about 35 secs and at 96c on my Sage DB/ Mazzer Major grinder. This changed the shot from overwhelming acidity into peach and marzipan notes. I have read quite a bit about extracting light roasts, and the prevailing wisdom seems to be that they are more tolerant of longer times to extract the same amount, and I have usually found this to be the case.

tompoland

Thanks for all feedback.

@Systemic Pardon my ignorance but what does “set to 93/102c” mean? I assume that 93 is the temperature of the water at the group head but not sure of the reference to 102.

I’ll try that lower temperature and play around with volume but sounds like plenty of people are happy with 18g in. No issues with a lower puck height for light versus dark? @MediumRoastSteam @LMSC

MediumRoastSteam

tompoland No issues with a lower puck height for light versus dark?

I don’t really drink dark roasts, only light/medium roast sort of thing. I’ve tried lowering the dose before, but, for my humble tastebuds, on the humble Elizabeth, makes no difference whatsoever.

dfk41

Systemic has an Evo leva. This has heater cartridges that are pid controlled, meaning that in the traditional sense, the water does not circulate from the boiler to heat the group., so the first temp figure quoted refers to the temp of the group. The second figure quoted is the temp of the pid controlled brew boiler. Were he using darker roasts then these figures would be lower

tompoland

dfk41 Thank you sir, mystery is solved. Learning every day.

LMSC

Do you use the stock or the IMS basket please ?

The IMS26 basket is good for 18g - unless you have a convex tamper; the 18g will be on the lower side for IMS32 basket.

You are going to require, on the IMS 32 for any roasts, at least 20g or the puck screen which I am not of fan of. You may need to slightly put up the temperature with the higher dose or grind a tad coarser. But, on your lever, the PI water flow is faster than the Evo. You may be fine with the same parameters for 20g. See how it goes.

tompoland

LMSC IMS 32 on the Valexia. Decent 22g basket on the Decent, which is were I am attempting light roasts initially. The Decent is more forgiving so I figure that I’ll start with the easiest machine and once I’m getting some decent (sorry) pours I’ll move to the the levers.

Think I’ll restart my attempts with 20g in the Decent, with the appropriate higher temperature and go from there.
Thanks!

LMSC

tompoland I will be surprised, if your lever isn’t as forgiving as our Evo!

Hotmetal

For me, I’ve been on light to medium beans for ages, particularly natural process - an acquired taste but I love them. I use an 18g VST and run anything between 17.5-19g through it, and rarely worry too much about accuracy to 0.1g. Temperature wise I have my E61 set at “107” (which equates to about 94 at the group). I’m using an E37S which is 83mm flat burr. As someone above said, 1:2 can be a face full of grapefruit with some light roasts, and my go to is around 18:42, but the coffee I’ve just finished excelled at 18:54 in about 30-35″ (1:3) which is quite long ratio and relatively fast for an espresso of that volume but that was where the sweet spot was. Light roasts tend to give you less gloopiness, but more fruit, not necessarily very citrussy. Although I like the gloopiness of espresso, which is more forward in dark roasts, on balance I’ll sacrifice that for more character and fruit or boozy funk (from naturals). Going this route usually involves letting the old 18:36 chestnut go.

Dumnorix

Hotmetal
I just upped the ratio of the Colombian from Colonna I have been trying to get right to 1:3 (in 28 secs would you believe?!) An 18.5g dose seemed to taste best in the end after several attempts. I tried it over 30 secs but it was bitter, and any lower ratio was far too acidic. These particular beans are honey process, but I am personally a fan of light roast naturals too.

pjw

On Strietman CT2, you can go for 96C and 18 gram basket. Fine grind, long preinfussion, maximum yield, longer brew time.

MWJB

1:3 isn’t particularly long, I’ve had delicious lighter roasted shots at 1:4 to 1:6.

1:2 hasn’t been a target for very long, nor consistently. When I was getting into specialty coffee it was all about the 1:1.55/1:1.6 shots. Different in a, ‘strip the enamel off your teeth’ kind of way. Then in 2013 everyone was doing a double take at Pete Licata’s 1:2.5 shots…the halcyon days of 1:2 never really were. Espresso is not, nor has ever been a ratio (though if 1:2 works for you, great).

Darker roasts are more palatable at lower extractions, because acidity is muted, irrespective if they are more soluble, or not.

Hotmetal

Now I’m going to have to put the machine on and compare some of these longer ratio ones. I almost always pull longer than 1:2 but rarely longer than 1:3. Beyond that I start thinking Aeropress. Maybe I need to have a play and edumacate myself a bit on lungos.

Cuprajake

ive never been a ‘neat’ espresso drinker bar a few, most go into hot water,

longer extractions are more palatable

Hotmetal

I do like a neat shot here and there, and although I predominantly drink light to medium, as I don’t like roasty flavours, one of the things I like is that gloopiness. However to get that without it being sour you defo need to go more towards medium.
I probably drink 70%+ milky, 20% Aeropress, <10% neat. I often take a sip before the milk goes in, and if it’s delicious I just drink it neat.

Cuprajake

all mine go through a eb superfine basket so there cleaner than the londinium shots i used to have

Phil104

‘all mine go through a eb superfine basket so there cleaner than the londinium shots i used to have’

As noted elsewhere, this is my experience of switching to the superfine basket.

JHCCoffee

What about pressure? What pressure works best for lighter roasts? I started with 6 BAR peak and just tried 9 BAR, to increase the extraction.

And … how would you dial in lighter decaf (I have a Niche Zero, E&B 15 and 18g baskets, and a Decent). Any adjustments to your recommendations?

So far, I’ve tried 1:2 at 90C, then shifted to 1:2.5 at 92C and have begun to lose the sour notes. I guess I need to go to 1:3 at 94C?

I am so used to medium/medium dark roasts with caramel and chocolate notes that I am having trouble with fruit notes. It all just tastes sour to me. And I am used to/like fuller bodied shots. Some palate acclimatization is required.

I can set the shot up so that it moves onto a declining pressure if the flow rate exceeds 2 ml/second? Is that a good idea?

For you Decent owners out there, what profile(s) do you use? And if you use Visualizer, do you have or recommend any useful profiles from there, including yours?

Would I

DavecUK

JHCCoffee I am so used to medium/medium dark roasts with caramel and chocolate notes that I am having trouble with fruit notes. It all just tastes sour to me. And I am used to/like fuller bodied shots. Some palate acclimatization is required.

So you need to get used to it to eventually like it…very odd. I do find a lot of light roasts so underdeveloped, to me they are undrinkable.

james65477564

JHCCoffee 6 bar is generally better for clarity, but anywhere between 4-10 bar and you should be good. I have find flow is more important than pressure.

On a decent my favourite starting point is extractamundo dos. Flow rate and yield enhance/attenuate characteristics. If you are unsure about lighter coffees you could start slow (such as 0.8g/s) which will give mostly choc flavours and then go faster/longer to look for fruits working towards the turbo end. If it is still too light/sour I would then switch to allonge or full blooming (e-dos has a short bloom).

As per the guidance for e-dos I adjust ratio for taste - longer to attenuate sour, shorter to attenuate bitter.

Example from today which was actually very slow but tasted great:
https://visualizer.coffee/shots/714247ac-dfcf-4462-aef8-709dc705ca5b

I went faster into turbo range but didn’t like it as much:
https://visualizer.coffee/shots/dd87936d-7947-4c92-97a5-0c470008983f

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